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I am debating an X-SDA person who says the Father alone exists....

He says Jesus never existed before Mary's time.

The Holy Spirit is just a force of the Father...

Sounds like a Jewish concept of GOD, the Father only.

So how can the Father demonstrate love before Creation? How can the law of love operate if there is nobody else to love ?

Here are his comments :

Love has always existed in the Father because He IS love.

You cannot equate human love with the Yahweh’s love. We are incapable of loving someone who doesn’t exist, but Yahweh can because He knows the future. He knew you would one day exist, so He was able to love you before your birth. You did not know your children would someday exist, therefore you could not love your children beforehand.

Rev 17:8  The beast that thou saw was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.


In other words, I am trying to show you that Yahweh could love before there were any people to love. If He could love the world and us before we existed, then He could also love Yeshua before He existed.

In terms of humans, the smallest unit of love is a husband and wife. Two are needed, not three. Both husband and wife are providers, nurturers and responders to each other.

Yahweh was all three by Himself.

I thought love could only be expressed by relational Beings (plural)...

I think he is confusing knowledge with is an action word...

it is not a knowledge word, but love is only defined in Scripture by what a Being does for another Being....can anybody prove this to be correct ?Or is love also the ability to predict the future and show feelings into the future that haven't been experienced yet ?

I can say I loved my children in the past only up until they were born....but I cannot say I will love my children hundred years from now...because love is only manifested by what you the present continuous time...

OK I get it that GOD knows those who are saved even before they are born, but does this also demonstrate love ? I do not think so....


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Well written MFG, its a pity Gene is not up to a careful Bible presentation...

Yes GOD is a family of three...

It would be nice is some others answered the question....

Could the Father love if He was the only Being there was before Creation even existed, and no other co-eternal Being existed  ?


Yes Rob I agree MFG did that well, as for your own question.

The Bible is clear The 3 Co-eternal Beings of The Godhead has always existed. It occurs to me that if only the father was eternal we would have a god like the Muslims with no love to speak of. And we see strange Ideas being born in this enviroment Like The ISIS and Boko Haran.

I have to agree Elijah, Don Patton videoed Muslim leaving Islam and asked them what is different between your old religion of Allah and your new Christian one of GOD... He said "love"...

Just a single word...

The Father would violate the Law of Love if He existed only by Himself. I cannot understand how any Jew can't see this....unless they are loving themselves so much their religion is no better...self purposed called pride in Scripture...



God IS Love. Love emanates God's being; God was projecting Love when nothing existed. God did not create out of loneliness, God created out of Love. God created to share Himself; Love.

Nice start  Gene, you have to explain the natural law of love better than that...

Now some natural laws exist only in creation, such as gravity and mass and time and space

Some natural laws also came from sinning such as entropy and thermodynamics

BUT GOD is declared following a natural law applicable to this uncaused cause....Love....

Now despite what atheists says natural laws do not create feelings, or words, or matter 

Natural laws only describe things that move...

SO I ask you again how can a single entity (the Father) obey this natural law of love is there was nothing else in existence for love to move from one to another ?

All I need is a single text in Scripture where Ahab (Agape) or Ahabuh (Philos) yes there are TWO words in the Bible for love, not one....that describes love applying to one Being , rather than a flow between Beings ?

Here I have already done studies of both of these words, all verses in OT and NT listed ahab ahabuh

Test the hypothesis you make with Scripture....


MFG, that’s was beautifully said. I certainly agree God is a family. The God family now consist of the Son (the Word) and the Father; but soon it will consist of other sons that have been begotten by God’s Holy Power just as Jesus.

Romans 1:4 says that he

 …was declared by the resurrection from the dead to be the powerful Son of God according to the spirit of holiness—Jesus the Messiah, our Lord.

Jesus was appointed or declared the Son, the same way you and I will be; according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead, or the change in the twinkling of an eye.

Colossians 1:18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Jesus was firstborn, but the Father is creating more sons!

Luke 20:35but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead…for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

The Father is doing this, He does it by His own Power; the Holy Spirit Power.

But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (Romans 5:8)

i love it when we christians catch even the tiniest Glimpse of GOD!!!!!!!!

thanku for all the impute  here!

#Praise GOD from Whom all blessings flow

Yes Gene does write well, and out of grace write well for us all...

To be fair to those who want to doubt, and this is my problem when you look up Scripture ...

Do you look for the few that says one thing or the majority that says something else ?

I went through the 400+ verses that speak of love trying to find out if one can love alone ?

(1) Ge 22:2 And he said , Take now thy son , thine only son Isaac , whom thou lovest (ahab) Abraham & Son

(4) Ge 27:4 And make me savoury meat , such as I love (ahab)

Jacob & Esau

(7) Ge 29:18 And Jacob loved (ahab) Rachel

Jacob & Rachel

(14) Ex 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love (ahab) me,

God & man

(22) De 7:13 And he will love (ahab) thee, and bless thee,

God & man

(48) 1Sa 18:1 ¶ And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking unto Saul , that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David , and Jonathan loved (ahab) him as his own soul.

David & Jonathan

This is the closest to any verse saying one can love our own nephesh... but its a parallel to two beings...


(62) 1Ki 11:1 ¶ But king Solomon loved (ahab) many strange women ,

Somolon & women


(83) Ps 37:28 For the LORD loveth (ahab) judgment ,

But judgement impllies more than one being, God & others


(88) Ps 52:3 Thou lovest (ahab) evil more than good ;

function and dysfunction implys relationships to another being who set this up


(98) Ps 116:1 ¶ I love (ahab) the LORD , because he hath heard my voice and my supplications .

God and man


(115) Pr 3:12 For whom the LORD loveth (ahab) he correcteth ;

God & other beings


(117) Pr 8:17 I love (ahab) them that love (ahab) me;


(121) Pr 12:1 Whoso loveth (ahab) instruction loveth (ahab) knowledge :

This verse is interesting...surely you can love knowledge on your own ?

It could be a parallel to insruction, something requiring an instructor and receiver

(132) Pr 20:13 ¶ Love (ahab) not sleep , lest thou come to poverty ; open thine eyes , and thou shalt be satisfied with bread .

This could be argued love can also be a state of being...?

(133) Pr 21:17 ¶ He that loveth (ahab) pleasure shall be a poor man : he that loveth (ahab) wine and oil shall not be rich .

One could also argue love can apply only to one's feelings ?


(138) Ec 5:10 He that loveth (ahab) silver shall not be satisfied with silver ; nor he that loveth (ahab) abundance with increase : this is also vanity .

Loving money can be done by yourself, butare we making this a material object for love to pass onto something ?


(196) Mt 5:43 ¶ Ye have heard that it hath been said , Thou shalt love (ahab) thy neighbour , and hate thine enemy

Again love is related to other beings


(220) Joh 10:17 Therefore doth (ahab) my Father love (ahab) me ,

Again love is related to other beings


(225) Joh 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you , That ye love (ahab) one another ; as I have loved (ahab) you , that ye also love (ahab) one another .

Again love is related to other beings


(240) Joh 21:15 ¶ So when they had dined , Jesus saith to Simon Peter , Simon , son of Jonas , lovest thou (ahab) me more than these ?

Again love is related to other beings


(257) Eph 2:4 ¶ But God , who is rich in mercy , for his great love (ahab) wherewith he loved (ahab) us ,

Again love is related to other beings


(286) 1Jo 3:18 My little children , let us (ahab) not love (ahab) in word , neither in tongue ; but in deed and in truth .

Love is defined as actions


(388) 2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness ; and to brotherly kindness charity (ahab)

Again love is related to other beings

Now if the Father was alone before Creation, that rules out loving objects such as money...

what about loving your own feelings ? only one verse might suggest this, and over 380 verses say

love must have deeds, actions and objects or beings to love and show that love in deeds.

Surely this has to be the single biggest proof that GOD is a relational Being of persons (plural)?



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