Adventist Online

Hi Clarke, 

I would like to commend you and the team for managing the AO website it is clearly a needed and well loved place for Adventists all around the world to communicate and share. 

It is my understanding that this site is for Seventh-day Adventists only and I believe the reason and purpose for that is to protect Adventists from 'wolves in sheep' clothing' and to provide a safe environment for Adventist to share. 

I am sure that behind the scenes there is a great deal of work monitoring and moderating however, when a person openly declares themselves not to be an Adventist, declares themselves to be a prophet with new light, and is affecting the faith of others, what is your policy, procedure, and practice?

As the man with his name at the bottom of the page you are responsible for ensuring that the basic purpose, vision, mission, of this website is maintained. 

The non-Adventist I am speaking of is James French. 

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In need of prayer, 

The only person who has suggested banning you is James French. Ignore it, it is a meaningless statement. Right now, no-one is getting banned, I think this is just part of a martyrdom complex.

You state that "no where does it say you have to be a SDA". I refer you back to your quotation at the beginning of the post, "This is a site by Seventh-day Adventists for Seventh-day Adventists." I am concerned that you can read this, quote it and still not be aware that this is an SDA site. Please note also that the name of the forum is Adventist Online.

When you, and James, signed up to the site you had to answer the following question: "Do you agree to uphold the principles and beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist church in your conduct on this site and follow the Site Rules and Guidelines?"

To become a member of this site James, like everyone else, had to answer "Yes".

However, as can be very simply evidenced by reading any thread that James has posted in, he was lying. He has, in fact, broken both parts of the agreement. He continues to do this whilst claiming to represent Christ and then wonders why no-one accepts him.

He has made very specific allegations against other members, he has been rude and abusive to those who do not accept what he says. He insults anyone who disagrees with him and posts multiple off-topic responses.

Having read the rules you will be aware that they say:

  1. Be loving. Discuss issues with Christ-like love for your brothers and sisters here.
  2. Be truthful.  Do not mislead others.  Speak only words that have a factual basis.  Do not speculate about suspicions.
  3. No vulgarity, profanity, or crass ugliness will be tolerated.  Threats of any nature are strictly forbidden.
  4. Don't call names, make personal attacks, or use negative stereotypes against other people or groups of people.
  5. No belittling of individual people, their character, their beliefs, or their motives.
  6. Only rebut issues, NOT the people who write them.  Do not negatively characterize others' positions or beliefs with your own value judgment.  Simply state how you think the belief is wrong and what you believe the correct interpretation is, while giving your basis for your belief.
  7. Don't put words in other people's mouths that they have never said. (This does not, of course, prohibit quoting their words from previous posts.)
  8. Don't post in the public forum personal differences, arguments, old grudges, hearsay, private messages, etc.  No spamming discussion forum or chat rooms with off-topic, useless or repeated messages.
  9. No spamming, soliciting money, commercial messages, or link farming. Ideological links at odds with the SDA church and Commercial links / messages are only allowed on your own personal profile page.  Members agree to not use any of the following ways to advertise, promote, or repeatedly link to any website: Status Updates, Comments, Chat, Videos, Photos, Groups, Blogs, Forum Discussions, Messages (both public and private), Member Name and Profile Picture.  Members further agree to not use Adventist Online as a platform to invite Adventist Onlines' members to any other membership site.
  10. Adventist Online is not a place to state your beliefs without accountability for their Biblical and/or Spirit of Prophecy basis.  Adventist Online is not a place to silence those who do not agree with you.  Do not stop the open exchange of ideas and the search for His truth by closing active discussions, blocking or deleting comments to your blog entries, videos, etc.
  11. Listen to, and cooperate with, moderators. Challenging the decisions/actions/inaction of moderator/s in the open forum is not acceptable behavior.  Use the "Report an Issue" link located at the bottom of every page to address issues.
  12. This is a site by Seventh-day Adventists for Seventh-day Adventists.  We welcome all seekers of God's truth here.  We believe that God will continue to reveal His truth to His people as time progresses.  Thus we are constantly seeking a better understanding of God and His word.  We welcome all that are doing the same. That said, if it becomes apparent that your purpose in being a member of this site is to promote a different agenda and/or sow discord among the brethren, your ability to interact with this site may be restricted.
  13. Only one profile is permitted per person.  Only one person is permitted to use each profile.  Each profile represents one person (the account holder) and is not a separate unique entity.  The profile is the representation of the person who established it.  The person and their profile are one and the same.
  14. If you ever feel justified for being negative or antagonistic toward another person...  prayerfully see rule #1 and DON'T.

Rules 1-8 have all been broken by James, many on a persistent basis. #'s 10, 12 & 14 have also been broken by James. So, out of 15 rules only 3 have not been broken by James, many of these rules being broken multiple times.

Now James is aware that this site is for SDAs. James is also aware that his presence has caused a lot of distress, due to his persistent rule-breaking. He derides our church, verbally abuses the members and is extremely defensive and rude in his responses. All this has been pointed out to him, he is aware that his "message" has been roundly rejected by the majority yet he remains on the site, continues to speak against the SDA Church and continues to be abusive and rude.

In need, I appreciate you praying for us here on the site. Your support or not for James is immaterial to me. I do not see the same spirit coming from you as I do James and I see much more of a Christian spirit in you. Unfortunately, due to your support for James it seems that you are getting a bit of flack as well. This should not be, and is extremely unfortunate but that brings me to another point. There is a Christian principle on how we should react to abuse from others, Christ told us to turn the other cheek and we are not supposed to return like for like when faced with abuse. I see your responses and feel that there is a Christian representation there.

Of course, I do not mean to suggest that others on this site are blameless but we should not measure ourselves against others, we measure ourselves against Jesus Christ and no other.

So, now, when I look at the character of James, what do I see - who do I see? Someone who retaliates when they feel threatened, someone who becomes abusive whenever another disagrees with them. Someone who is very defensive and spends a lot of time promoting himself and his abilities. Someone who is quick to take offence yet equally quick to give offence. Someone who presumes to know others and speak to the assumptions, someone who demonstrates no love only condemnation.

Well, that does not necessarily make him that different from others on the site. What does make him different is that he brings a lot of the abuse on himself and then plays the martyr.

I don't agree with Gerald Umraw's post 100% but he did give what is, in my opinion, a very good summation of James. James seems to be very quick to give abuse but cannot take it when others, rightly or wrongly, return that abuse... to be honest he comes across as a typical bully.

If James wants to continue on this site I hope that he takes on board the reaction that he is receiving and recognises that he may be responsible for much of the treatment he has received. Otherwise, why does he keep posting here - even making multiple replies to a single post? Unless he desperately needs the attention why does he not move on?

I have taken your advice and sat back and just read what has been posted. Sadly, nothing has changed my mind - I wish it had. The result of what I have observed is this post.

I do uphold the principles of the SDA church, as long as they don't conflict with written scripture. I believe in the foot washing for example which I was privileged to participate in as well as other events. I never wanted In Need banned, in fact I don't want anyone banned, even Mr. T. And Gerald.
I also believe in the spirit of prophesy, but not only believe in, but practice, along with the other 8 manifestations of holy spirit.

You apparently didn't read or didn't take to heart the extreme insult and abuse of being called mentally ill in light of my brother attempting to use that very same accusation against me not only behind my back, but to everyone including the courts and attempted but failed involuntary psychiatric evaluation.

When Mr. T. Added to that lying about it openly here, you don't object to that. He also accused In Need of Prayer of the same thing, for the sin of hearing the voice of the Lord.

That is totally demonic and antichrist doctrine and practice as a child of the Devil would use, with not only the abuse of such, but then attempting to ban me on top of that. I give Mr. T. The benefit of the doubt that he is not seed of the serpent, that is why I still pray for him, though he acts like one in practice.


Why would I take the abuse on this site unless I want you to understand and receive the truths lost for 2000 years, of the sacred secrets given to Paul and the power of the holy spirit. Some of you gang up on me.

There are spirits of the Devil operating in every church, not only SDA. Every Christian is a target for Lucifer, every Christian has a target on his back.

I do not hate SDA people, but rather I dislike the doctrines that are contrary to the liberty in Christ. Without conceding your other points, which are lengthy.

The last point and question posed to all including you is what was contrary to scripture in the prophesy that caused such a strong response. It was general in nature, not addressed to or naming anyone, but regards to the general state of Christianity and the state Christianity is in now in these end times?

What if my message was inspired by the Holy Spirit, what then? Then you and others would be opposing a message from The Lord. Since my original message flows with scripture completely, you must consider that as a possibility.

James, I have read a thread which I assume is the one you are talking about. If it is not, please direct me to where Pastor T accuses you of being mentally ill. In the thread I have read I don't see a direct accusation nor a reference to In need of prayer being mentally ill.

However, I do see Pastor T raising a delicate point.

Perhaps it might be helpful to give you some insight to the SDA Church?

Possibly due to the heritage of accepting sis. White as a messenger of God we have been beset by many who clam to be speaking on behalf of God. To my certain knowledge some of those professing to be receiving messages from God have been suffering from mental illness. This is not allegation on my behalf, this is fact. Therefore I understand Pastor T raising this topic. The posts that I have read have not accused you of being mentally ill and I recall one post where he specifically said that he was not accusing you. It is not a topic that can be raised easily

However, notwithstanding the above, if you have an issue with Pastor T why have you not used the "Report an Issue" link at the bottom of the page? It is there to bring problems like this to the attention of a moderator/administrator. Instead, in the thread that I read you made multiple posts "giving as good as you got" to Pastor T and, obviously angry, you were shouting and abusive to him. It does seem strange that rather than moderate your own behaviour you want to moderate another poster.

Now I fully accept that I may not have all the facts, that you may well be able to link me to posts by Pastor T that do specifically accuse you of having a mental illness and that you may also be able to link to another post wherein Pastor T accuses In need of prayer of suffering from a mental illness. I have looked for such posts but I cannot find them.

Whilst you are at it, if you could provide a link to any post other than your own that suggests banning In need of prayer, that would be helpful.

James, please provide the links. I have seen in your posts that, despite being one of the rudest posters that we have had on AO, you are prone to exaggeration and seeing insult where none is intended. From reading the thread above this is exactly what I see happening: you took the question as an allegation and then responded with multiple, aggressive and insulting posts. If I am wrong on this summation, please provide links.

Thank you.

Ok, I am bothered by your statement below.

In Need

I admit I had a quick read of the site rules and no where does it say that you have to be a SDA. It was my understand that James French had attended SDA church, and as mentioned before, we have no idea what God's purpose is for James AO. But to see this behaviour does not represent Christ character. I am appalled. Are you going to have me banned?'

John B

You state that "no where does it say you have to be a SDA". I refer you back to your quotation at the beginning of the post, "This is a site by Seventh-day Adventists for Seventh-day Adventists." I am concerned that you can read this, quote it and still not be aware that this is an SDA site. Please note also that the name of the forum is Adventist Onl

Either you have a problem with comprehending, or you just deliberating delete what you want.   The point was, Yes it states a site by SDA for SDA but all are welcome is key my friend.  So it is not just for you, and I, the site can be used for those seeking.  We will never help people if we say others are not welcome.

i asked if you were going to have me banned, did you see the ???? mark??

Yes In Need. We can be accused of mental illness, and they think that is ok, but what is good for the goose is not good for the gander. Will they ban those that did that?

In need,

In regard to banning: please re-read the first paragraph of my last reply to you. The only person that I have seen referring to banning you was James French. Why would I want to have you banned?

In regard to the site: the site is open to the public to view. If you Google a relevant topic results from AO will often be shown on the first page. It is open to view but if you want to post you need to be a member of the site. Those viewing will read an SDA site with SDAs discussing various topics.

At the top of each page it states the following:

Adventist Online

Connecting Seventh-day Adventists Every Day

To join the site you must answer a question:

"Do you agree to uphold the principles and beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist church in your conduct on this site and follow the Site Rules and Guidelines?"

If you do not answer "YES" to the above question you cannot join the site.

In James' response above he qualifies his answer but the question cannot be qualified so the point stands. If you don't agree with the principles and beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist church how can you honestly answer "YES" to the question?

Well just about everyone has broken those rules on record, and it appears that Mr. T. was seeking to ban me from the site, thus his inquiry, as he wrongly states that its only for SDA members. The sites own words state that is open to anyone seeking the truth, and new light etc.

I answered Yes with the condition to which I have already stated above. Anything to the contrary of the written word and the spirit of God, notwithstanding. Lets assume hypothetically, that just one of the official SDA beliefs is completely contrary to the word of God, would you follow that because they say so? You are also addressing conscience before God. You are like the Grand Inquisitor of The Catholic Church. By the way you judge, you shall be judged. Jesus warned about that. I don't care what you say about that, I joined the site or anything else, if there is something off, I will not follow that, period. Hey, even the new logo, you should agree to all of its Satanic and Occultic messages, take them to heart, go ahead, believe it all, but some here do not.

What you profess is a cult like attitude, is that the only way you can keep this going. Your dying as a church and a site because many of you are closed minded, a closed society and some of you refuse to concede your religion to the word of God, as many Christians do. Some of you think having a cup of coffee is a sin, come on, contrary to scriptures.

Many SDA members drink coffee, tea, eat what they want. Some of you think that and other things is of the Devil, contrary to the Apostle Paul about eating, drinking, esteeming or not esteeming days. The Council at Jerusalem regarding the Gentiles in Acts Chapter 15, Colossians 2: 16-23, and Romans chapter 14. Your judgments are often non-biblical, based on your SDA culture, and not specific to the Word of God, or on a slanted logic and misconception of the word or applying old testament as mandatory while being in conflict with the New Testament.

I would say that I agree with a lot of things taught in the SDA, so I would say I am a semi-SDA. I attend the Sabbaths because I choose to and want to, not that I believe I must. Many people here joined and disagree with certain doctrines. Are you going to throw them out or chastise them that they don't follow the rules according to you when they joined?

Mr. T is a decent person but, he has his own issues with present truth, so you should not worry so much.

well, he wasn't decent to me calling me mentally ill. he still isn't decent to me, even to this very hour. I politely requested an apology for In Need of Prayer, as well as for myself, which was refused.


Everyone attacks me, but do you think honestly that calling someone mentally ill for listening to the voice of the Lord is a decent thing to do, and then lie about it later, especially for a Pastor, on a public forum. No wonder he wants to get rid of me, I am addressing his morals that directly was reprehensible.

James,

We have addressed this point before, whether other members have or have not broken the rules does not provide any excuse for you to do the same. We are each responsible for our own actions. The only person that you should compare yourself with is Jesus Christ. So, once again, for clarity, each person is responsible for their own actions - sinning is not a comparative sport.

Please provide a link to where Pastor T (that is his name, we don't have a member called Mr T) has called for you to be banned. 

The "site's own words" have been explained in the post above. Did you read the post that you are responding to?

The site is open to the public to view. If you Google a relevant topic results from AO will often be shown on the first page. It is open to view but if you want to post you need to be a member of the site. Those viewing will read an SDA site with SDAs discussing various topics.

At the top of each page it states the following:

Adventist Online

Connecting Seventh-day Adventists Every Day

To join the site you must answer a question:

"Do you agree to uphold the principles and beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist church in your conduct on this site and follow the Site Rules and Guidelines?"

If you do not answer "YES" to the above question you cannot join the site.

There is nowhere that you can add conditions to the question. This ensures that only SDAs will gain membership - or someone who is prepared to lie to gain access. If you don't agree with the principles and beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist church how can you honestly answer "YES" to the question?

You ask, if "just one of the official SDA beliefs is completely contrary to the word of God, would you follow that because they say so?" Absolutely not. That's the point. If you have answered "yes" I would assume that you know what you are agreeing to. If you do not agree, or think that you might not agree, with any of the beliefs and teachings of the church, why would you agree?

James, no-one forced you to join this site and no-one forced you to agree to something that you do not agree to. Your choice. For what ever reason you decided to lie to join the site.

You state that, "You are also addressing conscience before God. You are like the Grand Inquisitor of The Catholic Church."

I don't think that you understand how the Inquisition worked. Once again, no-one forced you to lie to join the site. Surely, it would be equally as correct to say that you are using Jesuitical reasoning to justify breaking the law of God?

The rest of your post is really irrelevant. Whatever allegations you want to make against the SDA Church only serves to reinforce the fact that you are not an SDA, do not uphold the beliefs and teachings of the SDA Church and lied to gain access to the site. The fact that you continue to post on this site and attack the SDA Church only goes to demonstrate that it is right to impose restrictions on the site. The question in my mind is now, how would we go about preventing liars from accessing the site in the future? We have to rely on Christian honesty, obviously, in your case, that doesn't work.

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