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In this quote even though there were other elders present - Ellen White did the work of the elder by annointing the person with oil.

 

"Just as the meeting closed, Sister Meade, who had been afflicted with a slow fever, requested us to pray for her. We went into a room by ourselves, Brethren Holt, Wheeler, Stowell, James, and self. After I had anointed her with oil we prayed over her, and she was healed every whit and fell prostrate by the power of God. That night we got into a rowboat and went on the pond about one mile to Brother Meade's. His sister was there with a very sick child. We anointed it with oil and prayed over it, and God heard our prayers."--5MR 239. {PaM 234.1}

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Yes. Most certainly. Praise God.

And in her work she did even more than an elder. Praise His Name.

NHim

 

This sign of desperation to find some way to justify the ordaination of women, should be a good sign that there is a heart problem.  A failure to be submitted to God's instructions and instead more interested in following the whims of culture. 

 

God can ordain anyone He wants to, after all, He is God.  God has never even hinted in any place that women can be ordained by humans with impunity.  Many have died because they inssited on ordaining women and many more will follow their pathway.  Is being ordained more important the life?  Then going to Heaven?  It seems like there are some badly skewed priorities here. 

 

As a person ordained by God, yes Ellen White had the authority to annoint with oil.  But, not even she was ever given the right to ordain women as elders or pastors.  That should say something, for those who want to hear.  However, an unwillingness to listen to God's instruction is typical of the Laodicean church.  Which is why it will be spewed out of God's mouth.

 

Maranatha :)
Ray

MsMS

 

Oh, I would expect to have you find something to disagree with me on. LOL  So, I did not want to spoil your day. LOL

 

Ordination means being set aside for a sacred purpose.  Ellen White was set aside for a holy purpose by God.  True, God did not annoint her with oil, but that is only the way for humans to ordain, not for God.  She was ordained.

 

As for the difference between ordination and being commissioned.  The difference is basically the way the words are spelled.  They both mean basically the same thing. 

ordain v., dained, daining. -v.t. 1. to invest with ministerial or sacerdotal functions; confer holy orders upon. 2. to enact or establish by law, edict, etc. 3. to decree; give orders for. 4. (of God, fate, etc.) to destine or predestine. 5. Archaic.to select for or appoint to an office. -v.i. 6. to order or command. ordainable, adj. ordainer, n. ordainment, n

commission n., v., sioned, sioning. -n. 1. the act of committing or giving in charge. 2. an authoritative order, charge, or direction. 3. authority granted for a particular action or function. 4. a document granting such authority. 5. adocument conferring authority issued by the president of the U.S. to officers in the military services and by state governments to justices of the peace, etc. 6. the position or rank of an officer in any of the armed forces. 7. a group of persons authoritatively charged with particular functions: a parks commission. 8. a task or matter committed to one's charge; official assignment: The architect received a commission to design an office building. 9. the act of committing or perpetrating a crime, error, etc. 10. something that is committed. 11. authority to act as agent for another or others in commercial transactions. 12. a sum or percentage allowed to agents, sales representatives, etc., for their services. -v.t. 13. to give a commission to. 14. to authorize; send on a mission. 15. to order (a warship, military command, etc.) into readiness for active duty. 16. to give a commission or order for: to commission a painting for the lobby.Idiom. 17. in (or out of) commission, in (or not in) service. in (or not in) operating order. Also, into commission. (of a ship) in condition for active naval service. commissionable, adj. commissional, adj. commissive, adj. commissively, adv.

The basic difference in meaning is that a commission is a secualar term while ordaination is a religious one.  When women are commissioned, that is a bit of fancy footwork to sidestep the fact that they are not to be ordained.  Otherwise, the end result is the same.

 

As for Laodicea.

    "So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth." Rev. 3:16 (KJV)   

The church triumphant will be the ones who have not been decieved by such issues as ordaining/commissioning women, rings, diet, music, the day and manner of worship, etc.  They have gotten the victory over the beast and his image (thinking and acting like the beast) and have not been shaken out like those who cling to those decieptions. 

     "The time is not far distant when the test will come to every soul. The mark of the beast will be urged upon us. Those who have step by step yielded to worldly demands, and conformed to worldly customs, will not find it a hard matter to yield to the powers that be, rather than subject themselves to derision, insult, threatened imprisonment, and death. The contest is between the commandments of God and the commandments of men. In this time, the gold will be separated from the dross in the church. True godliness will be clearly distinguished from the appearance and tinsel of it. Many a star that we have admired for its brilliancy, will then go out in darkness. Chaff like a cloud will be borne away on the wind, even from places where we see only floors of rich wheat. All who assume the ornaments of the sanctuary, but are not clothed with Christ's righteousness, will appear in the shame of their own nakedness."  {PH117 63.2} 

     "There are many who have never had the light. They are deceived by their teachers, and they have not received the mark of the beast. The Lord is working with them; He has not left them to their own ways. Until they shall be convicted of the truth, and trample upon the evidence given to enlighten them, the Lord will not withdraw His grace from them. Let all that hold the truth, hold it in righteousness. Let them, in words and actions, reveal what the truth is doing for these natural branches that are grafted into the olive tree. Let them at all times give evidence that they are partaking of the nourishment from the parent stock, and bear fruit exactly like that of the stock. The Spirit of Christ is our great need."  {19MR 103.2} 

Have a good day.

 

Maranatha :)
Ray

 

 

 

 

 

And yet Ray reflects the majority position in the church when it comes to not ordaining women pastors.

Do you remember, the church that voted by an overwhelming majority - twice - not to ordain women pastors?

Perhaps you are confusing the rebellion of the NAD against duly constituted church authority with something good.

Rather sad that people are still desperately trying to find anything to support this unBiblical idea, particularly when they disabuse the one they claim to respect.

John E,

 

Please address the issues rather than personally attacking someone who disagrees with you. As you are no doubt aware your post above broke several of the site rules.

This is not the first time that this has happened - you have been cautioned over this kind of behaviour before, yet you find it acceptable to continue to deliberately break the rules.

You have consistently sought to attack those who disagree with you whilst failing to produce any counter-argument beyond insulting and belittling.

In another response in this thread you state, "As an ordained minister of the Gospel,.."  I find it doubly disappointing that as an ordained minister you find it acceptable to persistently break the rules that you have agreed to uphold.

You may not like the facts, but that does not excuse your behaviour.

 

I expect a full retraction of the first four words of your post and an apology.

...and the apology?

You owe me an apology for the first four words of your original reply to me - "Your hatred of women".

 

This was the basis of your argument against me, to accuse me of hating women because you are unable to rebut my position on either a theological or factual basis.

I pointed out to you above that personally attacking someone is against the rules, as is ascribing motives or thoughts to someone. You broke rules 3 to 7 in that post.

In this thread you also accused Ray of hating women. As I pointed out, if you have a theological argument you should present it. Instead, you decided to insult two other posters and accuse them of being misogynists. Insults do not replace reasoned argument nor should they be presented by someone claiming to represent Christ. 

You have deleted the insult aimed at me but you have not apologised.

Is this showing the love of Christ?

Is this the kind of behaviour we should expect from an SDA Pastor?

It is one thing to hide the insult, it is another thing to accept that your behaviour was wrong and apologise for it.

 

So, to make it clear, it is the phrase that you deleted when I objected to it that I would normally expect an apology for: "Your hatred of women..."

You also used the same insult to attack Ray.

 

Please don't try to claim that your interpretation of Ray's post means that you have a right to insult me and therefore don't need to apologise. The fact that you have deleted your reply to me demonstrates that you accept that you were wrong.

If I may jump in... yes, "commissioning" is just another way of saying "ordained".

Someone who is ordained has hands placed on them by ordained pastors whereas someone who is commissioned has hands placed on them by ordained pastors.

However, commissioned pastors cannot ordain other pastors. So, women are relegated to a "lower" ordination.Commissioning came to us from the IRS in the USA as a way of getting tax benefits. In other countries the word is used so that the claim can be made that women are not being ordained. But, in reality, it is all smoke and mirrors.

Despite the world-wide church twice deciding that we will not ordain women, a significant minority of the church continue with open rebellion against the decision of the GC sitting in Session.

John

 

Nice words, but they are not in harmony with God's word.  Let the Bible speak.


    "After this thing Jeroboam did not turn from his evil way, but made priests for the high places again from among all the people. Any who would, he ordained to be priests of the high places.  [34] And this thing became sin to the house of Jeroboam, so as to cut it off and to destroy it from the face of the earth." 1 Kings 13:33-34 (ESV) 

    "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 6:23 (ESV) 

    "Therefore the Lord was very angry with Israel and removed them out of his sight. None was left but the tribe of Judah only.
    [19] Judah also did not keep the commandments of the Lord their God, but walked in the customs that Israel had introduced.  [20] And the Lord rejected all the descendants of Israel and afflicted them and gave them into the hand of plunderers, until he had cast them out of his sight.
    [21] When he had torn Israel from the house of David, they made Jeroboam the son of Nebat king. And Jeroboam drove Israel from following the Lord and made them commit great sin.  [22] The people of Israel walked in all the sins that Jeroboam did. They did not depart from them [23] until the Lord removed Israel out of his sight, as he had spoken by all his servants the prophets. So Israel was exiled from their own land to Assyria until this day. 2 Kings 17:18-23 (ESV)  

  
    "But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols.  [21] I gave her time to repent, but she refuses to repent of her sexual immorality.  [22] Behold, I will throw her onto a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her I will throw into great tribulation, unless they repent of her works,  [23] and I will strike her children dead. And all the churches will know that I am he who searches mind and heart, and I will give to each of you as your works deserve."  Rev. 2:20-23 (ESV)

     "Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,  [2] and of instruction about washings, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment."  Hebrews 6:1-2 (ESV)  

If you read on to verses 4, 5, the punishment for ignoring these doctrines is spelled out.

 

It is easy to make pious statements.  It is easy to scoff and label others in a negative way in order to avoid facing a doctrine or teaching that is not to one's likeing.  However, when a minister of the gospel does such things, they have a much higher accountability before God.  It is something that must not be taken lightly.

 

God has never authorized anyone to ordain a woman into the office of elder and/or pastor.  When this is done, it is a open act of rebellion against God, the ordination or commission has as its only authority that of the humans who placed it, and it places the woman in a position where God places a death sentence on them.  Giving unconverted women what they want because of a fear of the power of the skirt, will not leave one guiltless before God. 

 

This is why I have taken a stand against this heathen custom and oppose it whenever it comes up.  It is from Satan and has no place in the church of God.  Don't just disagree, show where in the Bible that God gives such authority.

 

Maranatha :)
Ray
 

 

 

John P

 

You refuse to see the obvious.  God can ordain anything or anybody, but no human can ordain, with God's blessing, that which God has condemned

 

It is your hatred for women that is being manifested.  To lead women into a position where they will loose eternal life is the worst kind of hatred one can have. 

 

These ordained women are god's servants, that is true, but not the servants of the God of Heaven.  They are the servants of the god of this world.  He is the one who has choosen women to lead out in his worship.

 

Your desperation to justify that which is not justifiable is becoming more and more intense all the time.  Attempting to justify ordination of women becasue Jesus was born of a woman is quite a stretch, born of desperation.  It would be much better to submit to God's revealed will than to continue to defend that which God has cursed and build a teaching on such a flimsy foundation. 

 

Pastor John Lomacang, of 3ABN, has just finished about a week ago, a series on demonic incursions into the church.  It would be well to spend the money to get a set of the DVD's and listen to them.

 

Maranatha :)
Ray

 

Your Biblical quotes have nothing to do with women being ordained or not.

 

"After this thing Jeroboam did not turn from his evil way, but made priests for the high places again from among all the people. Any who would, he ordained to be priests of the high places. [34] And this thing became sin to the house of Jeroboam, so as to cut it off and to destroy it from the face of the earth." 1 Kings 13:33-34 (ESV

Since  your argument rests on these verses then you should know that the reason his ordained priests became sin were because:

 1 kings 12:31

He also made temples on high places and appointed priests from among all the people, who were not of the Levites.

 

 We know that one of the requirements God had for high priests were that they must be LEVITES.

 

 

 

 

 

Barek and John

 

Present these arguments to God and see if He will accept them.  If you have such a hard time understanding these passages, it is obvious that the Holy Spirit is not being listened to either.  There is no more dense material to hide the truth than personal opinion.  You have your mind set, even if an angel from heaven came and presented the truth to you, you would reject it.  So, how can I expect you to accept what is presented.

  
    "I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— [7] not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.  [8] But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.  [9] As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed." Galatians 1:6-9 (ESV)

The teachings of Paul limit the ordination of priests and elders to men alone.  If you do not agree, then present biblical evidence.  Otherwise, you stand condemned by the word of God and are accursed, by Paul, not by me. 

 

Maranatha :)
Ray

 

 

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