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In this quote even though there were other elders present - Ellen White did the work of the elder by annointing the person with oil.


"Just as the meeting closed, Sister Meade, who had been afflicted with a slow fever, requested us to pray for her. We went into a room by ourselves, Brethren Holt, Wheeler, Stowell, James, and self. After I had anointed her with oil we prayed over her, and she was healed every whit and fell prostrate by the power of God. That night we got into a rowboat and went on the pond about one mile to Brother Meade's. His sister was there with a very sick child. We anointed it with oil and prayed over it, and God heard our prayers."--5MR 239. {PaM 234.1}

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The teachings of Paul limit the ordination of priests and elders to men alone.  If you do not agree, then present biblical evidence.  Otherwise, you stand condemned by the word of God and are accursed, by Paul, not by me. 


The same Paul who said this:


Romans 16:1-2

I commend to you Phoebe our sister, who is a servant of the church in Cenchrea, that you may receive her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the saints, and assist her in whatever business she has need of you; for indeed she has been a helper of many and of myself also

The word "servant" here was translated from the Greek word "διάκονον" which means deacon(deaconess),also means messenger.


I know which verse from Paul you refer to so I'll say this now,your interpretation of it contradicts this.

Barek and John


Barek, you quoted Romans 6, here is what it means.

     "I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a servant of the church at Cenchreae,  [2] that you may welcome her in the Lord in a way worthy of the saints, and help her in whatever she may need from you, for she has been a patron of many and of myself as well." Romans 16:1-2 (ESV) 

Pheobe was a wealthy woman, as was Lydia, who supported the apostles.  She was never, nor does this passage even suggest that she was ever ordained.  Even by your own words, if she in fact did hold an office, which this passage does not support, it was that of a deaconess.  Which has never been disputed.  However, there is zero evidence that she was:

  1. Ordained to any office.
  2. Ordained as an elder.
  3. Ordained as a minister/pastor.

When people misuse the Bible as you have done many times, it shows that they are not really accuratly handling the word of truth.  Such desperate spreading of misinformation is prima facia evidence that you know that you are wrong, and just desperatly attempting to save face by accusing every one else for what you are doing.


As far as the punishment for such actions go, just because punishment tarries, it is only to give the guilty time to repent.  However, when people become obdurant in their rebellion, they will come to the point where they commit the sin that God cannot forgive.  At that point, it is all over for them. 


They will be turned over to the control of the master they have choosen, in this case the god of this world, and they will not even have pangs of conscience over what they have done.  Their end at that point is set.


God is the same, yesterday, today and forever, He never changes.  What He labled as sin in the time of Jeroboam, ordaining anyone who will, is still sin today and the wages of sin is death, eternal death.  


The better way is to repent of your sin of defying God's word and attempting to misused it to your own ends, and submit to God before it is too late.  Unless you do, your posts here will come back to haunt you then.


Maranatha :)


Not to mention he used the verses as though they suggested something that they don't.



Who says only elders can anoint with oil?


This is a false leap of logic to suggest that since Ellen G. White anointed someone with oil that she was doing "the work of an elder".

John E,

An apology comes from the person who committed the wrong. if you are offering me an apology for having deliberately insulted me that is different. An apology is dependent on it being proferred by the one who is in the wrong. You have said that if I *feel* that an apology nis owed I should accept.... what?

I may feel that you owe me a thousand dollars - does that mean that you *do* owe me the money?

You are now saying that Ray owes apologies yet at the same time you were not able to stand up and offer one to me yourself. All you can say is that if *I* feel that you owe me an apology but what about you? Do you feel that you should apologise to me or not?


Now I don't know why any apology to me depends on what I think about Ray's post but... having read it, it appears that you are misrepresenting what he said. Can you show me anywhere where he has "wished" death on anyone?


Now, are you apologising to me or not?

No, John E, you deleted the post and then reposted without the offending remarks. This does not reflect an apology. It may reflect regretting posting the offending remark in the first place but in no way have you apologised.

Deleting the post is not an apology it is just hiding the offence.


An apology does not depend on what I feel but what *you* feel. If you feel that you should apologise, you will apologise. If you do not think that you should apologise then you won't. So far you have not apologised.


Just because you think that others are worse than you does not mean that your insults are acceptable. We are not judged by how we measure up to other sinners but by how we measure up to Christ.


So far, you have not apologised to me you have just given a grudging "if you feel I owe you an apology.." How about you? Do you feel that you should apologise to me or not?


Btw: whilst I understand that this is a distraction - I still don't see anywhere that Ray wished that female pastors lose eternal life. He didn't say that - you just claimed that he said it. In other words - straw man. You set it up to attack it, but he never said it.

Yes John. And this is coming from someone how lied trying to smear my name by saying I was not a member of the Seventh day Adventist church and that my family has used my account.  How does he have the nerve to get off like this.

He needs to leave the rules enforcement to Admin.

If he is going to ask you to apologize to him. Then I have the right to require of him an apology for his lies about my membership status. There will be no end to this mess. We can go around trying to determine who has lied and who has not. And then demanding apologies. No End to it.


How about is we just show a little Christian character and make sure ourselves and our own lives are what they should be. And then just stick to a discussion in a Christian way ... the issues that we want to discuss. But condemning and smearing our fellow brothers and sister ... is just satanic.



John E,

This is the second time that I have had to point out to you that when you click the "Reply" button under someone's post you are replying to that person. You were replying to my post. You knew that you were replying to my post. Why are you pretending that when you clicked "Reply" at the bottom of my post you were not replying to my post?

As to your "secondly" - do you mean that I should allow you to continue to break the site rules as and how you feel like it and "let it roll off" my back? Do you understand why we have site rules? It is to try and stop people making personal attacks such as you did. We want people to have a good debate, not to think that they can belittle and insult others as in your post.

The rules are there to stop people like yourself making claims like "Your hatred of women..." as they constitute a personal attack on the poster rather than a rebuttal of the argument.

You state that you "don't think it's fair for me to have to retract my opinions". Well, actually, that was the problem. Your "opinion" that I am a woman-hater is exactly that - an opinion. You are not able to support it with evidence and used it as a cheap insult to bolster your response by belittling someone else. One does not expect a Christian to argue in such a way.

Who made you retract it? I thought you decided to retract it and then claimed that it "reflected" your apology? Now you confess that you "have to" retract it - not that it was done by choice.

So now even the retraction was not sincere.


Now, I was offended that you accused me of being a women-hater, so where is the corrected apology to be found?

JohnB. You need to stick to the rules of this site.

It is laughable that you are calling for OTHERs to apologize. When you are a chronic rule breaker.

Please let's stick with the purpose of this forum ... to discuss issues and not people.

Please stop your attempts to smear other fellow believers.

Stick to the issues JohnB. Stop your abuse of the rules.

N Him,

Please read the rules before posting such a reply as this. I understand that you want to hurt me but this kind of post is breaking several rules. Please don't try to dig up old grudges and stick to the point at hand.


Thank you.

What is not defined here is 'old'. How old does old have to  be to be old?

MsMS pointing out someone has broken Rule 7 you are bringing up old grudges. Or at least a grudge. Again ... I am not sure how old old is since old and 'is' are words hard to define. Just ask Bill Clinton. lol

John - You indicated that "I know that soon as I respond, I will be blamed for them leaving or having shingles again!"

I feel your pain. If only we could stick with the issues and discuss them in a Christian manner instead of bringing up this lie and that lie and this breaking of the rule and that breaking of the rule.


We have an Admin. who addresses rule breaking as they see fit and when the see fit. It really should not be done on the board by anyone except those acting in their official capacity. And even then it is usually done in a private manner.


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