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What are the processes that leads to disfellowshipping a church member, and what will disfellowshipping solve at the end? Does the church have a monitoring tool for the disfellowshipped to keep them close lest they leave forever?

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@Ronald.  Not that I disagree with you.  However, on our previous discussions you eschew what has been plainly written.  Other than Church doctrine, can you find me one passage in all of scripture that forbids smoking?  I suspect you can't.  Again, I do not disagree with you that smoking is wrong.

But, once again, I see you picking and choosing and then you baffle me with the last line: "what are we trying to do, play God?"

So, in some circumstances you agree with it is fine, but in others you don't, you add, "what are we trying to do, play God?"

So, you leave me perplexed by the inconstancy.  Can you help me out with the confusing nature of your response, so I can understand you better?



Ronald, they why would you disfellowship someone who is smoking for which there is no biblical passage regarding smoking, whatsoever?  It is inconsistant.  You tell me that what I Timothy 3:1-7, can't mean what it plainly says.  Yet, you say, smokers should be disfellowshiped, for which ther eis no passage speaking against smoking specifically.  Not one.  Then you add, "We shouldn't play God."  Can you understand my confusion, and asking for you to please clarify your position, rather than simply stating, "my arguments are too deep."  That is not really an answer.

@Ronald.  So, what you are telling me, is you are implying tobacco use is a sin, when it is not specifically mentioned.  However, when gender is specifically mentioned, it confuses you?

Ronald my friend

Female Pastors are not Biblical, it is easy to show that it is so from a God who does not change.

James says that the wisdom which is from above is "first pure" (James 3:17). If he had seen his brethren using tobacco, would he not have denounced the practice as "earthly, sensual, devilish" (verse 15)? In this age of Christian light, how often the lips that take the precious name of Christ are defiled by tobacco spittle and the breath is polluted with the stench. Surely, the soul that can enjoy such uncleanness must also be defiled. As I have seen men who claimed to enjoy the blessing of entire sanctification, while they were slaves to tobacco, polluting everything around them, I have thought, How would heaven appear with tobacco users in it? God's word has plainly declared that "there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth" (Revelation 21:27). How, then, can those who indulge this filthy habit hope to find admittance there? {SL 30.3}

It cannot get plainer.

Mark, I am not disagreing that tobacco use is wrong.  I am merely looking for simple consistancy. 

No, Ronald, the game is yours.  You call what is not as if it were, and what is as if it were not.

Daniel my friend

I am merely pointing out that this statement you made is incorrect.

"Ronald, they why would you disfellowship someone who is smoking for which there is no biblical passage regarding smoking, whatsoever? "

Mark, I am not advocating smoking.  I am merely pointing out logical inconsistancy, to demand a person be disfellowshiped on which there is no specific passage, while advocating female Elders and and Pastors, which scipture is plain that is not appropriate.  To extrapolate what is not specifically mentioned, and ignore what is, is picking and choosing based upon preference.


I firmly believe that smoking when you know the horrible risks of emphazema and cancer is an assault upon the temple of the Holy Spirit.  But, we could take that to a whole other level.  The American diet of constant fast food, and the Adventist tendancy for consuming sugar by the boat load could also be considered in the same light.

Daniel my friend, I am sorry if I did not make myself clear.

You are making one sin more important than another, you are claiming that it is clearly stated about women pastors, yet it is not about smoking.

What I am saying is you are both incorrect, as scripture states very clearly that it is wrong for females to be pastors and it is wrong to smoke, they are both accountable according to God's word.

It seems that the structure is choosing what they deem to be appropriate and what is not.

In regards to eating, it is not a sin to eat, but it is a sin to overindulge. Smoking cannot be compared to bad eating, the human body is required to intake food, but at no point does the body require tobacco, so it is not a good comparison.

The only time someone should be disfellowshipped... is when the person is deliberately spreading lies or causing confusion and turning people from the path of truth.


If that were the case, a LOT of people here would be facing that problem.  A lot of churches are reticent to do that.


May I ask who determines if they are spreading lies?

They accused Christ and the apostles of spreading falsehoods, but were they correct?

Every person has the Bible and SOP for themselves to decide for themselves what is truth or what is error, no one has the right to decide for them.. I have heard leaders saying that because they do not agree with someone they will disfellowship them to protect the flock??

That is the spirit of antichrist.

Christ's servants are grieved as they see true and false believers mingled in the church. They long to do something to cleanse the church. Like the servants of the householder, they are ready to uproot the tares. But Christ says to them, "Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest." {COL 71.2}
Christ has plainly taught that those who persist in open sin must be separated from the church, but He has not committed to us the work of judging character and motive. He knows our nature too well to entrust this work to us. Should we try to uproot from the church those whom we suppose to be spurious Christians, we should be sure to make mistakes. Often we regard as hopeless subjects the very ones whom Christ is drawing to Himself. Were we
to deal with these souls according to our imperfect judgment, it would perhaps extinguish their last hope. Many who think themselves Christians will at last be found wanting. Many will be in heaven who their neighbors supposed would never enter there. Man judges from appearance, but God judges the heart. The tares and the wheat are to grow together until the harvest; and the harvest is the end of probationary time. {COL 71.3}

Take heed my friend.


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