It's just such little courtesy is exhibited on this forum. There are many trollers who are permitted to run amuck (and I'm sure they will troll on this post), who actually demonstrate to the online world that Adventists aren't really clear thinking people, but are rather bigots, child-like in mentality, unable to engage intelligently, unsound in mind, logic and reason, and are just simply un-Christian. People like Lazarus, Jason M., Bart, and the like, seem to think that this is their realm and fortress, guardians of orthodoxy, and can only abuse, mindlessly misrepresent others, accuse others, name-call, attempt to attack and hurt others, and do all the things that Jesus clearly has never felt Himself needing to do. And yet they seem to be the main ones responding to all discussions, despite breaking the forum's rules, and their bigotry is simply tolerated. Is this the picture AdventistOnline wants to put out to the world? What happened to ever being a light to the world that Jesus Himself said we should be? What ever happened to proving all things (1 Th. 5.21) rather than being staunchly entrenched in Adventist tradition? Isn't that what Adventists originally rebuked other denominations for? What ever happened to love your neighbour as yourself? As time approaches its end, shouldn't a different picture of Adventists be put out there? Will this be the only legacy of Adventists presented to God and the world?
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Tomas, I respectfully ask -- please could you give me some examples of my being :
a bigot, showing child-like mentality, my inability to engage intelligently, my unsoundness in mind, logic, etc., or, of my being abusive, mindlessly misrepresenting and accusing others, name calling, attacking and hurting others, and such like?
Please Tomas, if you believe that I am one of the leaders in fanaticism, then I need to understand...
(The step you've taken here is quite serious, in my view, and I think you are taking a risk... But I am willing to listen. Please substantiate your charges against me.)
Hey brother Stewart, brother Tomas must have thrown you in there by mistake, because most of what you write is done in a good spirit. lol..unless it's something I haven't seen. But no, your great, wish we had more of you, and brothers like John B. to bring balance. Bless!
I agree with brother Grey, we don't need to throw out names, but I would have to agree with Tomas there are some here who stands for the church and it's teachings, but their spirit is not of the fruits. Just because people are throwing darts at the Church doesn't mean we need to be extreme in our response. No name calling needed, no sarcasm needed, just the Word and the fruits of the Spirit.
EGW: "When in your discourses, you denounce with bitter sarcasm that which you wish to condemn, you sometimes offend your hearers, and their ears are turned from hearing you further. Carefully avoid any severity of speech that might give offense to those you desire to save from error; for it will be difficult to overcome the feelings of antagonism thus aroused.... If you will weed out the tares from your discourses, your influence for good will be increased".—Letter 366, 1906.
EGW: "At the same time nothing savoring of a harsh, denunciatory spirit is, under any circumstances, to be indulged. Let our periodicals contain no sharp thrusts, no bitter criticisms or cutting sarcasm. Satan has almost succeeded in expelling from the world the truth of God, and he is delighted when its professed advocates show that they are not under the influence of truth which subdues and sanctifies the soul."T7 p,155
If it's some people here that is trying to break down the SDA foundational teachings that comes from the Bible, then they should be met with the fruits of the Spirit and a Thus sayth the Lord, if not, "There are times when silence is eloquence.".
If it would be easier for you to contact me privately, then please feel free to send me material via the personal messaging facility on this site. Either publicly or privately, I would be happy to dialogue with you further.
Actually, I think it was another Stuart (misspelt) from past posts that I have conversed with, not you Stewart, since I don't remember conversing with you. Sorry about that.
Ok, I accept that.
Thank you Tomas.
One more comment if I may, Tomas.
If you are doubtful now that I am an offender, then I would point out that it is within your power to change your opening post. But perhaps I should say also that I have not felt offended, or provoked in any way by your original comment, and yet, as I said earlier, I think you are taking a risk, and it is for your sake that I have sought to draw you out. I speak only because I have a care for your welfare.
You are absolutely right. I don't come on here often now, but it was absent-minded of me to not take your name off earlier (I didn't realise I could until you said so, so it was good that you did). My post has been rectified. I appreciate your advice and your concern for my welfare. Apologies so much again for putting you up there.
While I agree with OP's message of the forum lacking courtesy, I feel it's wrong to out individuals by name. I'm sorry but I believe in taking the higher road and addressing the problem, and not making it a personal attack.
Well, if we don't name, then we might as well say everyone generally, which doesn't solve the problem does it. For me its better to be specific to get examples, and then not label every Adventist, which can so easily be assumed. And anyway, its the spirit or nature of what those specific people are posting that I believe does a disservice to Christ. Why not mark out specifically? Jesus did.
I'm not so sure naming them solves the problem either. It will just make them go on the defensive. And claim that like Elijah, and all others who spoke out the truth, they too are being persecuted.
Brother Tomas I understand your frustration. The thing we must remember is that it's not our job to convince anyone of our stance. Sometimes by sharing our opinions some overzealous members will jump in, make bold statements and slander our characters. Is it right? No. But entering into an argument with them on why they are acting wrong wont solve anything. I know cause I have been watching these forums for a long time. These people still act the same today as they did back then. We really can't change them, but we can stop their behaviour from changing us. I don't believe in personal attacks, so I never make them. Do others make them towards me? Yes. But I will never return the attack. Sometimes we must lead by example.
Again, I understand it's frustrating. In all honesty it's the main reason why I don't post in the forums much. It has truly discouraged me to see brothers of the faith treat each other so terribly. So I know why you are upset. It's important to discuss such behaviours. But again, making the names public wont solve the problem, it will only add fuel to the already burning fire.
Good points there Grey. I understand what you're saying, and I accept them as very sensible.
I just thought to speak freely and open it up - a good family is one that talks honestly even if it is difficult. However, I do it for another reason. I do it asking what is the purpose of Adventism if this is all it is? I raise the bigger question of what is its relevance if all it is is about defending orthodoxy. What is its relevance here and now as we approach the critical stage in earth's history. But so far, judging from having been born in it, becoming an orthodox guardian, re-examining it's claims and then disagreeing with it, its relevance on the world stage in God's plan, from what I see is minimal. Not only because of its systematic inherent errors within the fundamentals of Adventist belief, but because those errors are producing people who will crash the system. Consider 1888 when GC couldn't accept Righteousness by Faith in its fulness opposed by orthodox belief. Consider in the 20th century when it tried to be part of Christendom on 'Questions on Doctrine' but it couldn't due to orthodox guardians. Consider Desmond Ford when he tried to address the Investigative Judgment issue which has a huge impact on Salvation for Adventists, and he was rejected, led by orthodox guardian Neal C. Wilson. Consider today a phenomenal stalwart Ben Carson running for president to try and make a difference, or the vote this month on women ordination, all to be opposed from within by entrenched orthodox guardians who haven't even bothered to ask whether their position is right or wrong (I speak in general).
Today we are at an impasse, and the results will determine whether Adventism continues to be relevant or will just dissipate into divided factions, irrelevant to God's plan of being a light to the world, in such a dark hour as we have today (massive refugee crisis in Europe, fleeing from wars in Mideast and Africa, the Euro Crisis, the Islamic Caliphate threat, the Iran threat, the Russian threat, China's growing conflict with its neighbours, on top of growing natural calamities, pestilence, etc.). This month is a vote on women ordination at GC. What will it mean for Adventism? Ty Gibson has his Spectrum article that it may even lead to splits within Adventism. Why? Just because of an inherent inability of Adventism to progress to greater and new light, and those that promulgate such a system.
If there was ever a time for reasonable, open, clear-minded Adventists to start speaking out and fighting for truth and love it is now. And again, I see nothing wrong in naming the names. Did Jesus refuse to say pharisee or sadduccee when he was addressing those who did wrong? My friend, this tepid approach will only end in one thing - irrelevance. I want to be relevant. I hope that you do too.
I deal teenagers everyday who complain how someone was not nice to or did not want to be their be their friend .
I tell them that is awesome the things that worth more are the ones you have to work for . If you want them to be your friend go love the longer it takes the more exciting and in the end the friendship will last. I think enemies make life exciting . I want to them to know the more you hate me the more I will love you . I argue just find some way to serve . It is really fun . I try to find something we agree with on a topic and focus on that. If I can not I says that reminds of a bible verse what do you think about it. Never be false if you can not agree don't pretend.
9 Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. 10 Be devoted to one another in love. Honor one another above yourselves. 11 Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. 12 Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction,faithful in prayer. 13 Share with the Lord’s people who are in need. Practice hospitality.
14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. 15 Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. 16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position.[c] Do not be conceited.
17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone. 18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.19 Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[d] says the Lord. 20 On the contrary:
“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”[e]
21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
"who actually demonstrate to the online world that Adventists aren't really clear thinking people, but are rather bigots, child-like in mentality, unable to engage intelligently, unsound in mind, logic and reason, and are just simply un-Christian"
So how would you would you love them? Win them to Christ ? Take the fear out their hearts that the world is turning against them . How have you pointed them to Christ ? I am sure you wish to love them right other wise you are no different than them. Anyone can love those who are like themselves . Jesus the world will never accept you . Are bigots just lost people. How many post here are truly about the Christ and Him crucified .How many about how to witness ? How about God's love. I mean real love not a chemical responds to what you like but true love, the love brings enemies together. Instead there so many topics that doomed to start an argument. That are divisive right from the beginning . When people put something on an open forum ,it is natural people get carried away . It is part of life. Even Moses the most humble man in the world got angry and lost his temper the people . Are the posters more patient than Moses? . We all need the Holy Spirit.