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Peace

 Brothers and sisters of the SDA movement, this post is to show that the teaching within the Church that GOD'S Holy set times are done away with is wrong. Teaching the annual Holy Days of GOD are done away with weakens some our reasoning on why we should observe the 7th Day Sabbath. Let me show you how.

 When SDA teach about the 7th Day Sabbath, we use several reasoning methods to show that the 7th Day Sabbath is not done away with as many Christians believe. 

 One of them is, it was Jesus' custom  to observed the 7th Sabbath, and we should do what Jesus did, He is our example. For me, this is the most powerful proof that the 7th Day Sabbath is not done away with... I never heard anyone say there are things Jesus did that we shouldn't do, I always heard if Jesus did it, we should do it. 

 However, when it comes to applying that same reasoning to the annual Holy Days of GOD, that's not good enough for many in the SDA Church on why we should observe them. To me that's illegal reasoning, because you can't apply a reasoning point to one subject (the 7th Day Sabbath) and not use or ignore that same point on another subject (the annual Holy Days) that's within the same context, GOD'S Holy appointed times. 

 Whatever Jesus did, we should do. I don't believe anyone here will dispute this. 

 

 EGW: "The example of Christ is authoritative for every son and daughter of Adam.He represented the law of God in His life, giving to men an example of what obedience to every precept will accomplish for human nature. He is our example, and every one who is endowed with reasoning faculties is required to follow in His footsteps; for His life is a perfect pattern to all humanity. Christ is the finished standard of the character to which every one may attain. . . ." SD p.137

 

 With that said, let's ask ourselves, did Jesus observe the annual Holy Days of GOD along with the 7th Day Sabbath.. The answer is Yes! 

 


EGW: [Passover]-- " In the days of Christ the people had grown cold and formal in their service to God. They thought more of their own pleasure than of His goodness to them. But it was not so with Jesus. He loved to think about God. As He came to the temple, He watched the priests in their work. He bowed with the worshipers as they knelt to pray, and His voice joined in the songs of praise." SJ p.31

EGW: "Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the Lord seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath. And ye shall take you on the first day the boughs of goodly trees, branches of palm-trees, and the boughs of thick trees, and willows of the brook; and ye shall rejoice before the Lord your God seven days. And ye shall keep it a feast unto the Lord seven days in the year. It shall be a statute forever in your generations: ye shall celebrate it in the seventh month. Ye shall dwell in booths seven days; all that are Israelites born shall dwell in booths: that your generations may know that I made the children of Israel to dwell in booths, when I brought them out of the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God." It was to the celebration of this feast that Jesus came. RH July 7,1896

 When teaching about the 7th Day Sabbath, and Jesus observing the Holy day, for me it's a slam dunk reason on why we should observe the Sabbath. Again, I never heard anyone say there are things that Jesus did that we shouldn't do. I always heard if Jesus did it, then it's good for us to do.

  


Lets look after the cross, is GOD'S people observing the Holy feast days of GOD? Lets look at Luke, Paul and converts, which were mostly gentiles

 
EGW: "At Philippi Paul tarried to keep the Passover. Only Luke remained with him, the other members of the company passing on to Troas to await him there. The Philippians were the most loving and truehearted of the apostle’s converts, and during the eight days of the feast he enjoyed peaceful and happy communion with them." AA p.390

  Luke, Paul and his Phillippian converts kept the whole eight days of the feast. If I'm not mistaken, this is about 20 something years after Jesus' death and resurrection. 

 Their actions is positive proof that the annual Holy Days of GOD were still being kept by Christian Jews and Gentiles. Again, this is the same reasoning towards the 7th Day Sabbath, 

 

Joe Crews: "In Acts 16:13 we have positive proof that Paul kept the Sabbath even when there was no synagogue and no Jews. He was ministering in Greece, where there were only a few scattered Jews and no synagogue at all. What did he do on the Sabbath? “And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spoke unto the women which resorted thither.”
Even with no church to attend, the apostle sought out a spot where religious worship was carried on—a place of prayer by the river—and preached to those who went there. Surely, no one can fail to discern Paul’s deep commitment to the Sabbath as we follow him in this unusual outdoor mission. Just suppose this Macedonian experience had taken place on the first day of the week instead of the Sabbath. Without question, it would be cited as absolute evidence for Sunday worship, and we would have to concur. But what possible arguments can one present against this example of Paul in true Sabbath keeping."

 Let's get some commentary from Steve Wohlberg Of White horse media, it's the tenth reason on why The Sabbath is not just for the Jewish people.


Steve Wohlberg (White horse media) wrote: " 10) Luke was a Gentile who kept the Sabbath. Luke was the only Gentile who wrote any New Testament books (he wrote The Gospel According to St. Luke and The Acts of the Apostles). Luke traveled with Paul and wrote, “On the Sabbath we went out of the city by a river side.” Acts 16:13. It was the seventh-day Sabbath, the memorial of the creation (see Ex. 20:11). Both Luke and Paul knew it."

 Applying that same reasoning, which is a good reasoning to use for SDA to use when teaching why we should be still observing the 7th Day Sabbath, it is one of the reasons that led me to understanding the Sabbath truth, because like people say, actions speaks louder than words... Taking that same reasoning and applying it to the annual Holy Days of GOD must be good too.

 EGW: "At Philippi Paul tarried to keep the Passover. Only Luke remained with him, the other members of the company passing on to Troas to await him there. The Philippians were the most loving and truehearted of the apostle’s converts, and during the eight days of the feast he enjoyed peaceful and happy communion with them." AA p.390

 Surly no one should believe they were sacrificing animals during this Passover celebration, so the argument that if we want to observe the annual Holy Days we must sacrifice animals, that holds no weight.

 Those who say we must be in Jerusalem to properly observe the annual Holy Days of GOD, that holds no weight. They were in Phillippi, not Jerusalem.  These are points of view that many SDA hold, because it's being taught by our teachers. 

 I highly respect Doug Batchelor, probably the most recognized SDA today.. I heard him teach on why Christians are not obligated to observe the annual Holy Days of GOD... some of them are, The Ten Commandments are written on stone, and annual Holy Days are written on paper, another one is, The Ten Commandments are inside the Ark and the commandments about the annual Holy Days are on the side of the Ark.. None of that holds any weight, because SDA fully understand that there are commandments written on that paper and put on the side of the Ark that we say are still binding, like the health laws.

 

 

Doug Batchelor: "2. Why did God give health principles to His people?
"The Lord commanded us to observe all these statutes, to fear the Lord our God, for our good always, that He might preserve us alive” (Deuteronomy 6:24).
“You shall serve the Lord your God, and He will bless your bread and your water. And I will take sickness away from the midst of you” (Exodus 23:25).

Answer: God gave health principles because He knows what is best for the human body. Automobile manufacturers place an operations manual in the glove compartment of each new car because they know what is best for their creation. God, who made our bodies, also has an “operations manual.” It is the Bible. Ignoring God’s “operations manual” often results in disease, twisted thinking, and burned-out lives, just as abusing a car can result in serious car trouble. Following God’s principles results in “saving health” (Psalm 67:2 KJV) and more abundant life (John 10:10). With our cooperation, God can use these great health laws to significantly reduce and eliminate the effects of the diseases of Satan (Psalm 103:2, 3)."

  The argument that the annual Holy Days of GOD are done away with because they are written on paper and on the side of the Ark, and at the same time saying laws (health) written on the same paper and placed on the side of the Ark are still binding shows that we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water. We have to properly identify what is the moral laws and what was ceremonial temple worship laws (the bath water).  We find that out by the actions of Jesus and the Apostles. Again, Jesus observed the annual Holy Days of GOD, so without a doubt we can say they are moral.

 EGW: "In consequence of continual transgression, the moral law was repeated in awful grandeur from Sinai. Christ gave to Moses religious precepts which were to govern the everyday life. These statutes were explicitly given to guard the ten commandments. They were not shadowy types to pass away with the death of Christ. They were to be binding upon man in every age as long as time should last. These commands were enforced by the power of the moral law, and they clearly and definitely explained that law. "–  RH May 6, 1875 

 The term ceremonial feast days is used often, but the term is not used nowhere in the Bible or SOP in the writings of EGW. But unfortunately many SDA use the term to strengthen their argument on why we shouldn't observe the annual Holy Days. Of course when we hear ceremonial, we automatically know the ceremonial laws was done away with at the Cross. So ceremonial is attached to the annual Holy Days. There were ceremonies done on all of GOD'S Holy Days including the 7th Day Sabbath , but the day itself is not a ceremony. 

 

 Where does this teaching come from? Who takes responsibility for trying to change GOD'S annual Holy Days? It's the same people who thinks to change times and laws, the Roman Catholic Church!

 

Daniel 7:25 (King James Version)
"And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.


 Most SDA know this verse, and we mainly apply it to the Sabbath, but it's talking about the Feast days as well... Lets go to several other translations of the Bible... It sheds more light on what these "times"(Plural) are..


Daniel 7:25 (Amplified Bible)
"And he shall speak words against the Most High [God] and shall wear out the saints of the Most High and think to change the time [of sacred feasts and holy days] and the law; and the saints shall be given into his hand for a time, two times, and half a time [three and one-half years].


Daniel 7:25 (New Living Translation)
"He will defy the Most High and oppress the holy people of the Most High. He will try to change their sacred festivals and laws, and they will be placed under his control for a time, times, and half a time.


Dan. 7:25 (New American Bible)

"He shall speak against the Most High and oppress the holy ones of the Most High, thinking to change the feast days and the law. They shall be handed over to him for a time, times, and half a time


Daniel 7:25Christian Standard Bible (CSB)

25 He will speak words against the Most High and oppress[a] the holy ones of the Most High. He will intend to change religious festivals and laws, and the holy ones will be handed over to him for a time, times, and half a time.


Daniel 7:25 GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

25 He will speak against the Most High God, oppress the holy people of the Most High, and plan to change the appointed times and laws. The holy people will be handed over to him for a time, times, and half of a time.

Daniel 7:25Good News Translation (GNT)

25 He will speak against the Supreme God and oppress God's people. He will try to change their religious laws and festivals, and God's people will be under his power for three and a half years.


Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

25 He will speak words against the Most High and oppress[a] the holy ones of the Most High. He will intend to change religious festivals[b] and laws, and the holy ones will be handed over to him for a time, times, and half a time

   AT Jones gives a History lesson in the book Great empires of Prophecy, he said


"From Rome there came now another addition to the sunworshipping apostasy. The first Christians being mostly Jews, continued to celebrate, in remembrance of the death of Christ, the true Passover; and this was continued among those who from among the Gentles had turned to Christ. Accordingly, the celebration was always on the Passover day, the fourteenth of the first month. Rome, however, and from her all the West, adopted the day of the sun as the day of this coloration. According to the Eastern custom, the celebration, being on the fourteenth day of the month, would of course fall on different days of the week as the years resolved. The rule of Rome was that the celebration must always be on a Sunday." (Great Empires of Prophecy, 1898, p. 389 by A.T. Jones)

 At SDA crusades we like to show the Roman Catholic Church speaking these words against The Most High, and admitting they are the reason for this attempted change. Let see,

 For 25 Years Father Enright Offers $1,000 For A Bible Verse Commanding Sunday Observance:

“Dear Friend, I have
offered and still offer $1000 to any one who can prove to me from
the Bible alone that I am bound, under grievous sin to keep
Sunday holy. It was the Catholic Church which made the law
obliging us to keep Sunday holy. The church made this law long
after the Bible was written. Hence said law is not in the Bible.
Christ, our Lord empowered his church to make laws binding in
conscience. He said to his apostles and their lawful sucessors in
the priesthood “Whatsoever you shall bind on earth shall be
binding in heaven.” Matthew 16:19. Matthew 18:17. Luke 16:19.
The Cath. Church abolished not only the Sabbath, but all the other Jewish festivals. Pray and study. I shall be always glad to help you as long as you honestly seek the truth. Respectfully, T.
Enright CSSR.” June 1905

  It's not just the 7th Day Sabbath people of GOD, they take credit for trying to abolish the annual Holy Days of GOD too. Let's check out some more..

 This from the Catholic Catechism, by Peter Cardinal Gasparri, translated by the Rev. Hugh Pope, O.P., second printing, copyright 1932 and printed by P. J. Kenedy & Sons, Typographi Pontificii, 12 Barclay Street, New York, questions 203-206, pages 120-121.


(204) What were the festival days in the Old Testament?

In the Old Testament there were many festival days, but the chief one was the Sabbath, the very name of which signifies the rest needful for the worship of God, whence it is called "the day of rest."


"(205) Why is the Sabbath day not observed under the New Testament?

The Sabbath day is not observed under the New Testament, because in its place the Church keeps Sunday in honor of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, and the coming down of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost; the Church also adds other festival days.

(206) To what, then, are we bound nowadays as regards keeping festival days holy?

As regards keeping festival days holy we are to-day bound to sanctify, in the manner proscribed by the Church, the Sundays and other Feast days appointed by her."

   This is from the Catechism of Pope Pius X:

2 Q. What are festivals?

A. In the Old Law they were Saturdays and certain other days regarded as specially solemn by the Jews; in the New Law they are Sundays and other festivals instituted by the Church

 Again, we know these statements all to well, however this shows it wasn't just the 7th Day Sabbath trying to be done away with by the Catholic Church, but the annual Holy Days of GOD as well. 

   After Paul's time, we see from the facts of history that this battle continued, there were Christians that were Gentiles like Polycrates that observed the annual Holy time of GOD when HE said to observe it, and not listen to the Catholic Church. 

 Polycrates wrote:  "We observe the exact day; neither adding, nor taking away. For in Asia also great lights have fallen asleep, which shall rise again on the day of the Lord's coming, when he shall come with glory from heaven, and shall seek out all the saints. Among these are Philip, one of the twelve apostles, who fell asleep in Hierapolis; and his two aged virgin daughters, and another daughter, who lived in the Holy Spirit and now rests at Ephesus; and, moreover, John, who was both a witness and a teacher, who reclined upon the bosom of the Lord, and, being a priest, wore the sacerdotal plate. He fell asleep at Ephesus. And Polycarp in Smyrna, who was a bishop and martyr; and Thraseas, bishop and martyr from Eumenia, who fell asleep in Smyrna. Why need I mention the bishop and martyr Sagaris who fell asleep in Laodicea, or the blessed Papirius, or Melito, the Eunuch who lived altogether in the Holy Spirit, and who lies in Sardis, awaiting the episcopate from heaven, when he shall rise from the dead? All these observed the fourteenth day of the passover according to the Gospel, deviating in no respect, but following the rule of faith. And I also, Polycrates, the least of you all, do according to the tradition of my relatives, some of whom I have closely followed. For seven of my relatives were bishops; and I am the eighth. And my relatives always observed the day when the people put away the leaven. I, therefore, brethren, who have lived sixty-five years in the Lord, and have met with the brethren throughout the world, and have gone through every Holy Scripture, am not affrighted by terrifying words. For those greater than I have said ' We ought to obey God rather than man' --- (Eusebius. Church History, Book V, Chapter 24. Translated by Arthur Cushman McGiffert. Excerpted from Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Series Two, Volume 1. Edited by Philip Schaff and Henry Wace. American Edition, 1890. Online Edition Copyright © 2004 by K. Knight; also Eusebius. The History of the Church, Book 5, Chapter XXIV. Digireads.com, 2005, p. 115).

  He covered from the Apostles to his time, and all observed the Passover on the day that GOD prescribed, the 14th day of the first month. 

 So the question many SDA have to ask themselves is, why are we taking the side of the Catholic Church in regards to the annual Holy Days of GOD and saying they are done away with, and not the side of Jesus, the apostles, and the early Christian church who continued to observed them? 

 

Blessings!

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Peace 

 

  Jason wrote: "There are many doctrinal errors in this post and some of them can be considered heresy and blasphemous. I will just post them without commentary for now. "

  Yes my brother, but hopefully I can show you the error of your ways and you can stop posting these "heresy and blasphemous " teachings of yours. 

 Let's go over what you posted from what I wrote, the difference is, I will provide commentary. 


 Reasoning wrote: "This is the biggest mistake in my view, blending moral with what is ceremonial. A very simple test to determine if the annual Holy days of GOD are moral or not is by the life of Jesus Christ and what He observed. "

 

 Yes Jason, you saying the annual Holy days of GOD are ceremonial is wrong, it's heresy ... Many SDA call them "ceremonial feast days", but that term is found nowhere in the Bible or SOP. It's made up. It's like a Sunday observer calling  the 7th day Sabbath, the ceremonial 7th day Sabbath, trying to blend Moral with ceremonial. That's blasphemous. 

 

 Reasoning wrote: "Jesus didn't observe the ceremonial law, but He did observed the annual Holy days of GOD. What does that tell us brother Ian? "

 This is a true statement from me brother Jason, what's your problem with it?? 

 Again, Jesus did not observe the ceremonial law

  EGW: "Christ passed through all the experiences of his childhood, youth, and manhood without the observance of ceremonial temple worship. He held no office, he assumed no rank. He passed through the experience of infancy, childhood, and manhood without a stain upon his character. He consecrated himself to God that he might benefit and bless others, to show that in every period of life the human agent can do the Master’s will. – RH October 24, 1899 Par. 11

 However, He did observe the annual Holy days of GOD. 



 EGW: [Passover]-- " In the days of Christ the people had grown cold and formal in their service to God. They thought more of their own pleasure than of His goodness to them. But it was not so with Jesus. He loved to think about God. As He came to the temple, He watched the priests in their work. He bowed with the worshipers as they knelt to pray, and His voice joined in the songs of praise." SJ p.31


 EGW: "Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the Lord seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath. And ye shall take you on the first day the boughs of goodly trees, branches of palm-trees, and the boughs of thick trees, and willows of the brook; and ye shall rejoice before the Lord your God seven days. And ye shall keep it a feast unto the Lord seven days in the year. It shall be a statute forever in your generations: ye shall celebrate it in the seventh month. Ye shall dwell in booths seven days; all that are Israelites born shall dwell in booths: that your generations may know that I made the children of Israel to dwell in booths, when I brought them out of the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God." It was to the celebration of this feast that Jesus came. RH July 7,1896

 EGW: "The example of Christ is authoritative for every son and daughter of Adam. He represented the law of God in His life, giving to men an example of what obedience to every precept will accomplish for human nature. He is our example, and every one who is endowed with reasoning faculties is required to follow in His footsteps; for His life is a perfect pattern to all humanity. Christ is the finished standard of the character to which every one may attain. . . ." SD p.137

 Let's reason brother Jason, Jesus didn't observe the ceremonial law, but He observed the annual Holy days of GOD. As the jeopardy theme music plays in the background, think about it my brother..

 Ok times up, the question to the answer is, What are the moral laws of GOD other than the 10 commandments Alex (RIP)?

 

My Brother, It must mean the annual Holy days of GOD are not ceremonial as you and many other SDA assume and falsely teach. 

  Reasoning wrote: "Holy Convocations of GOD are Moral."

   Ok Jason, what's your problem with my statement?

 Holy Convocations of GOD are Moral.. again, the example of Jesus Christ shows us that. He observed the Holy Convocations of GOD! This is really easy peasy bro.. But your neck is so stiff you fail to see the simplicity of this basic understanding. 

 EGW: ".. He is our example, and every one who is endowed with reasoning faculties is required to follow in His footsteps; for His life is a perfect pattern to all humanity.."

  Blessings!

Greetings Brother Reasoning

This has taken me some time to come up with an answer Let us look at another ordinance that was required by the Israelis and this was Circumcision we know that the ordinance was not abolished but Apostle Paul said this

Rom 4:9  Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. 10  How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. 11  And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: 12  And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. 

1Co 7:17  But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called everyone, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches. 18  Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised. 19  Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. 20  Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called. 

Gal 5:6  For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. 

In Acts Chapter 15 This question was settled by the council in Jerusalem It starts while the “Paul united with the ministers and lay members at Antioch in an earnest effort to win many souls to Christ, certain Jewish believers from Judea “of the sect of the Pharisees” succeeded in introducing a question that soon led to wide-spread controversy in the church and brought consternation to the believing Gentiles. With great assurance, these Judaizing teachers asserted that in order to be saved, one must be circumcised and must keep the entire ceremonial law.” AA p 188

Well we know that there was a Council in Jerusalem where the Holy Spirit interceded and settled the question and a letter was written where it states what a Christian is required to observe

Act 15:24  Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: 25  It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, … 28  For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; 29  That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. 

Now Circumcision was not abolished directly, but to me, it makes it clear we are not obliged to be circumcised. In the same way, I would think that the Passover has been (and how can I say this) put to the same class as the Circumcision an ordinance that has lost its original meaning.

If not, you want to put this in the same class as the 10 commandments Did you see how God told Moses to put the tablets in the Ark while the other Writings placed beside the Ark. The other writings contain the command of Passover, New Moons, the festival of booths, circumcision and a few other Ordinances that were not fulfilled at the Cross, and as I understand you call those Moral I fail to see the reasoning in this? If they are as moral as the 10 commandments why are they not written on the tablets of stone?

We have seen some promote the Lunar Cycle as the way to keep Sabbaths you can find discussions here on AO where the promoters were soundly put in their place I was one of them speaking against the Luni sabbaths.

I do not believe that God has abolished anything. But like circumcision it has lost its importance as the Holy Supper has replaced it, that is the way I see it. I am of the firm belief that every word in the Bible is there for a reason and if you think the Bible contradicts itself you better find out why because the Bible is true and we are just fallible men. And that is just my point of view on the Bible.

I can not think of anything more to add for now.

God bless and happy Sabbath.

Peace 

 Ian wrote: "We have seen some promote the Lunar Cycle as the way to keep Sabbaths you can find discussions here on AO where the promoters were soundly put in their place I was one of them speaking against the Luni sabbaths."

  Yes, I remember, I was the one directly involved in reasoning with them... The last person who was promoting that false teaching was Paul, before him was Kelvin... Paul shut down his discussion page during his and my discussion. 

 Ian wrote: "Well we know that there was a Council in Jerusalem where the Holy Spirit interceded and settled the question and a letter was written where it states what a Christian is required to observe."

  This is a favorite line of reasoning that Sunday observers use, they believe because of that council and what was to be required that it meant we don't have to observe the Sabbath. But we know that council it's not saying not to observe the moral laws of GOD. That's my response to you, it's not saying not to observe the annual Holy days of GOD. 

  

 Ian wrote: "Now Circumcision was not abolished directly, but to me, it makes it clear we are not obliged to be circumcised. In the same way, I would think that the Passover has been (and how can I say this) put to the same class as the Circumcision an ordinance that has lost its original meaning."


  I'm glad you say you think that, because what you think is not what it is... Lets remember


 EGW : "... certain Jewish believers from Judea “of the sect of the Pharisees” succeeded in introducing a question that soon led to wide-spread controversy in the church and brought consternation to the believing Gentiles. With great assurance, these Judaizing teachers asserted that in order to be saved, one must be circumcised and must keep the entire ceremonial law.” AA p 188


 The judaizing teachers said in order to be saved, one must be circumcised... It was legalism.


 EGW: "The Gentile converts, however, were to give up the customs that were inconsistent with the principles of Christianity. The apostles and elders therefore agreed to instruct the Gentiles by letter to abstain from meats offered to idols, from fornication, from things strangled, and from blood. They were to be urged to keep the commandments and to lead holy lives. They were also to be assured that the men who had declared circumcision to be binding were not authorized to do so by the apostles."– AA p.195


Because the Holy Spirit said this, ..


Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; 29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.


.. that doesn't mean the moral laws of GOD, the 10 commandments and the other moral laws contain written in the book wasn't to be observed. After the decision, EGW said the Gentile converts were ".. urged to keep the commandments and lead holy lives".


 Your mind might be on just the 10 commandments, but how can that be? Because SDA understand there are commandments/laws written on paper that are binding and we adhere to as well... why? Because they are moral laws.

 Ian wrote: "If not, you want to put this in the same class as the 10 commandments Did you see how God told Moses to put the tablets in the Ark while the other Writings placed beside the Ark. The other writings contain the command of Passover, New Moons, the festival of booths, circumcision and a few other Ordinances that were not fulfilled at the Cross, and as I understand you call those Moral I fail to see the reasoning in this? If they are as moral as the 10 commandments why are they not written on the tablets of stone?"

  This is easy to discuss with an SDA, so I'm amazed you fail to see the reasoning in this... as I wrote you already, because the 10 Commandments were written by the finger of GOD on stone, put inside the ark doesn't mean other laws of GOD aren't moral. Laws written by Moses on paper, put on the side of the Ark contains moral laws as well. Do you agree? The SDA Church agrees. 

  EGW: "In consequence of continual transgression, the moral law was repeated in awful grandeur from Sinai. Christ gave to Moses religious precepts which were to govern the everyday life. These statutes were explicitly given to guard the ten commandments. They were not shadowy types to pass away with the death of Christ. They were to be binding upon man in every age as long as time should last. These commands were enforced by the power of the moral law, and they clearly and definitely explained that law. "– RH May 6, 1875

  Ian wrote: "If they are as moral as the 10 commandments why are they not written on the tablets of stone?"

  This is where we have to reason brother Ian.. Now if I follow your line of reasoning, are you saying there aren't any moral laws written on paper by Moses?  

    Brother Ian, the laws that aren't ceremonial but moral, those that wasn't written on stone but on paper are enforced by the power of the moral law... They are to guard the 10 commandments. Its same Moral thread brother Ian. 

 

 

 EGW: "There are some who do not understand the plan of redemption, but make the death of Christ an argument to prove that the law of God is abolished. Men who claim to be teachers of the people blind the eyes of the ignorant by blending the moral law with the ceremonial, and using the texts which speak of the ceremonial law to prove that the moral law has been abolished. This is a perversion of the Scriptures. There are two distinct laws brought to view. One is the law of types and shadows, which reached to the time of Christ, and ceased when type met antitype in his death. The other is the law of Jehovah, and is as abiding and changeless as his eternal throne. After the crucifixion, it was a denial of Christ for the Jews to continue to offer the burnt offerings and sacrifices which were typical of his death. It was saying to the world that they looked for a Redeemer to come, and had no faith in Him who had given his life for the sins of the world. Hence the ceremonial law ceased to be of force at the death of Christ." {ST July 29, 1886, par. 4}

  Brother Ian, we can agree with SOP that there are only two distinct laws right? One of them ceremonial, which ended at Jesus' death, and the other is moral, which is as abiding and changeless as the eternal Throne of GOD?

 

 SOP says observing the ceremonial law is a denial of Christ... Most SDA teach the annual Holy days of GOD are ceremonial, I know this because they call them "ceremonial feast days", which that term is found nowhere in the Bible or SOP in the writings of EGW... and many SDA teach to observe them is a denial of Christ.. You do know that right?  Are you saying you don't believe that? Are you saying the annual Holy days of GOD aren't ceremonial? It's only two choices,  it's either Moral or ceremonial. 

 EGW: "... There are two distinct laws brought to view. One is the law of types and shadows, which reached to the time of Christ, and ceased when type met antitype in his death. The other is the law of Jehovah, and is as abiding and changeless as his eternal throne." 

 Ian wrote: " I do not believe that God has abolished anything. But like circumcision it has lost its importance as the Holy Supper has replaced it, that is the way I see it. I am of the firm belief that every word in the Bible is there for a reason and if you think the Bible contradicts itself you better find out why because the Bible is true and we are just fallible men. And that is just my point of view on the Bible."

   Of course I don't think the Bible contradicts itself, with all due respect, I believe you thinking the annual Holy days of GOD has lost its importance after the cross contradicts the Bible and SOP in the writings of EGW. 

 In 1844, there was only one day (Oct.22, or the tenth day of the seventh month) that marked the event of Jesus moving into the Most Holy place, that was one of the annual Holy days of GOD. I know you believe that day has importance, don't you?

    If so, then to say the annual Holy days of GOD has lost its significance after the cross is just not true! 

 

  Blessings!

 

Peace


Ian wrote: " I am SDA and have been for some 27 years now, in all that time I have never heard that you were obliged to keep Passover. And as you have seen in my discussions I do not believe we are as I do not see it as a moral command and I tend to believe it is in the same class as circumcision it is not abolished but has been replaced with another ordinance."


 Because I like transparency, I will post this part of the discussion on the board.


 I know you never heard that the annual Holy days of GOD was something we should observe, however that doesn't mean because our pioneers or our present teachers didn't teach it or don't teach it that it's not something we should observe. The SOP in the writings of EGW never says not to observe them.


Your belief is different from the overall belief of SDA, that teaching is, the "ceremonial feast days" are done away with or abolished at the cross with all the other ceremonial laws.


 Are you saying the teaching that annual feast days are ceremonial is wrong and it's not abolished?


  If you have a different belief than most SDA that's fine, I just want to make absolutely sure.


  Either way, it's one out of two, moral or ceremonial..



EGW: ". There are two distinct laws brought to view.... "
"... One is the law of types and shadows, which reached to the time of Christ, and ceased when type met antitype in his death. The other is the law of Jehovah, and is as abiding and changeless as his eternal throne. After the crucifixion, it was a denial of Christ for the Jews to continue to offer the burnt offerings and sacrifices which were typical of his death. It was saying to the world that they looked for a Redeemer to come, and had no faith in Him who had given his life for the sins of the world. Hence the ceremonial law ceased to be of force at the death of Christ." {ST July 29, 1886, par. 4}


  If you don't believe the annual Holy days of GOD are ceremonial and abolished like most SDA, then it must be moral. Let's take a look at what pastor Doug Batchelor ministry says


 Amazing facts ministry: " A law had been abolished by being nailed to the cross—the ceremonial law of Moses. Paul referred to the same law in Ephesians 2:15, “Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances ...”

 "There are Christians today who still insist that the yearly sabbaths should be observed along with the weekly Sabbath. If such is required, then what were the sabbath days which were blotted out and nailed to the cross? And what was the “holyday” mentioned by Paul as being abolished along with those “sabbath days which were shadows of things to come?” The Greek word for “holyday” is heorte, which is also used to designate one of the yearly festivals of the Jews: “After this there was a feast (heorte) of the Jews; and Jesus went up to Jerusalem” John 5:1. This is unquestionably one of the holy days that Paul spoke of as being abolished. In contrast, the weekly Sabbath is never referred to as a “feast,” neither is it ever connected to the Jews by such terms as “sabbath of the Jews.” It is only designated as the “sabbath of the Lord.”" Amazing facts 


 See brother Ian, what your saying is not in line with many, most in the SDA Church, again, the teaching is the annual Holy days of GOD are ceremonial, were abolished, and if a person observes them that it's a denial of Jesus. But your telling me you don't believe that right?


 Also, Amazing facts is wrong in saying the 7th Day Sabbath is never referred to as a feast day... If you read Lev.23, the context is about the Feast of GOD.


 Lev.23:1 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the Lord, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.


  I don't know if the word feast itself ruffles SDA feathers, and make them say things that are not true, but if you see what the context is, and that feast in Hebrew is Moed, which just means a Holy set time of GOD, a Holy Convocation, then these mistakes won't be made. What is the number one feast day/Moed/Holy Convocation, chief Holy day?


  Lev.23: 3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.


 Ian wrote: "I wonder if 27 million SDA could be wrong and you be correct remembering that there are many well-educated people among them who love the Lord. If it was a Moral command surely someone of those would have been alerted to it."

 
  Again, EGW never spoke against the annual Holy days of GOD like she did with the ceremonial law... The only education that matters to me brother Ian is the education of the Holy Spirit. But I do respect their education, but using that same logic, there are many of "well-educated" Christians that don't see the truth about the 7th Day Sabbath... So earthly education is respected, but it doesn't mean those people can't be wrong.


  Ian wrote: "I do remember that we had a meeting in the church back in my early days as an SDA where there were two pastors sitting in the congregation. I can not remember how the subject was raised, but they both said that they thought we should keep the new moon ordinance although I never saw them pushing the subject."



  Oh ok.. It make sense because they probably see the facts from the Bible that,


 Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.


  Most SDA in proving that the Sabbath is not abolished, they point out that we will be observing the Sabbath in the new heavens and new earth. It's a good point, the Bible clearly says it in the book of Isaiah..  but it clearly says we will be worshipping from one moon to another as well. This part seems to get skipped over, or not thought on, but the Bible clearly says it.


  Ian wrote: "Just as Circumcision and the New Moon the festival of booths were not abolished in the Bible so would the Passover be in that class, not abolished but not relevant to Christians in our day. You have seen my arguments as to why so I will not repeat them here."


  I understand your view, again, well-educated people within the SDA Church teach the annual Holy days of GOD are abolished, because they believe it was part of the ceremonial law. Do you disagree with those educated SDA who say the annual Holy days of GOD are ceremonial?


Brother Ian, circumcision was part of the ceremonial law


  EGW: "Peter laid the whole matter before them. He related his experience in regard to the vision and pleaded that it admonished him to observe no longer the ceremonial distinction of circumcision and uncircumcision, nor to look upon the Gentiles as unclean. He told them of the command given him to go to the Gentiles, of the coming of the messengers, of his journey to Caesarea, and of the meeting with Cornelius. He recounted the substance of his interview with the centurion, in which the latter had told him of the vision by which he had been directed to send for Peter. – AA p.141


 EGW: "The Jews therefore held it as highly proper that circumcision and the observance of the ceremonial law should be enjoined on the Gentile converts as a test of their sincerity and devotion."


 EGW : "In this instance James seems to have been chosen as the one to announce the decision arrived at by the council. It was his sentence that the ceremonial law, and especially the ordinance of circumcision, should not be urged upon the Gentiles, or even recommended to them."


So within the ceremonial law, the act of circumcision isn't wrong, as long as it's not being done as a means of salvation.


  EGW : ". The mere act of circumcision was not in itself inherently wrong. “Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing.” Yet it was wrong to trust in this rite as a means of salvation; for this would make of no effect the grace of Christ."


 The Bible clearly says circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing... The Bible does not talk about the annual Holy days of GOD in that way. So, I see no divine authority for you to put the ceremonial law of circumcision on the same level as the annual Holy Convocations of GOD, which are moral. 


 The annual Holy days of GOD aren't ceremonial, never was... Again, you hear the term "ceremonial feast days", but some of the educated SDA decided to come up with that term out of the blue or adopted it from somewhere.


 Blessings!


Continue..

The Passover was followed by the seven day’s feast of unleavened bread. The first and the seventh day were days of holy convocation, when no servile work was to be performed. On the second day of the feast, the first fruits of the year’s harvest were presented before God. Barley was the earliest grain in Palestine, and at the opening of the feast it was beginning to ripen. A sheaf of this grain was waved by the priest before the altar of God, as an acknowledgment that all was His. Not until this ceremony had been performed was the harvest to be gathered. {PP 539.6}

Peace 

  

  Brother Jason, nowhere in that quote is it speaking about the annual Holy days of GOD themselves... It's talking about the ceremonies done on the Holy days of GOD.

 Holy Convocations of GOD aren't ceremonies. You don't need any commentary brother Jason, I know what your implying with the EGW quote you posted, but if you honestly look, it's not talking about the days Holy Convocation. 

  Again, I have actual proof that the annual Holy days of GOD are still to be observed, by the actions of the early Christian church... You have misinterpreted quotes! 

  It's hard to misinterpret the actions and customs of Jesus Christ and the early church. Nobody in the SDA disagrees that Jesus observed the annual Holy days of GOD, and that right there should be good enough to show that the actual days of Holy Convocation prescribed by GOD are not ceremonial, it's shows that they are moral. 

  Just by that test alone, Jesus' example, should have you get rid of your pride and accept that GOD never intended for HIS days of Holy Convocation to cease like many SDA teach. 

 Again, to show with actions, not with misinterpretations of the words.. Luke, Paul and his converts continue to observe the annual Holy days of GOD.

 
  EGW: "At Philippi Paul tarried to keep the Passover. Only Luke remained with him, the other members of the company passing on to Troas to await him there. The Philippians were the most loving and truehearted of the apostle’s converts, and during the eight days of the feast he enjoyed peaceful and happy communion with them." AA p.390

  There's no pressure from anyone to observe the annual Holy days of GOD, or face possible death... It was a "peaceful" time in Philippi. Jews and Gentile Christians were still observing the annual Holy Convocations of GOD some twenty years after the death and resurrection of Jesus. 

 This reasoning brother Jason is not foreign to an SDA, many of us including me became SDA because of the clear reasoning of following the actions of Jesus and the early Church. 

 

  Blessings!

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