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"Through the two great errors, the immortality of the soul and Sunday sacredness, Satan will bring the people under his deceptions" Great Controversy p. 588.

"Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord" Isaiah 1:18. If there was ever a man that deserved to go strait to heaven at the point of death it was Jesus Christ! Yet on resurrection morning Jesus said to Mary Magdalene, "Touch Me not, for I am not yet ascended to My Father" John 20:17.

The Son of God who is our example in all things died, was buried, and then after He was resurrected went to heaven. So it is with the Christians.

Death
Burial
Resurrection
Then go to heaven

The Apostle Peter who was filled with the Holy Spirit spoke concerning King David; word's too clear to misunderstand. "Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the Patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried and his sepulcher is with us to this day" Acts 2:29. For David is NOT ascended into the heavens.

The dead Christians are not ascended into heaven praising God on the streets of gold. "The dead praise not the Lord" Psalms 115:17. According to the prophet David, "In death there is no remembrance of Thee" Psalms 6:5. In fact, the dead have no thoughts or feelings either good or bad while in the grave. "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing... Also their love and their hatred, and their envy is now perished" Ecclesiastes 9:5,6. "His breath goeth forth he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish" Psalms 146:4.

The dead do not communicate with the living! In fact the dead cannot haunt houses either! "He that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more, he shall return no more to his house, neither shall his place know him anymore" Job 7:9,10.

The fact that all such apparitions are not the dead is the clear teaching. Yet thousands of genuine apparitions appear every month around the globe. What are these? All such apparitions of dead loved ones are demons..

"There is a strong inclination among Catholics who feel constrained to admit the genuineness of spirit-messages to assert that these are produced by the agency of the devil; that the message does not come from any departed friend, but from an evil spirit personating him. We know that Satan is capable of transforming himself into "an angel of light," and he is presumably capable of transforming himself into the likeness of my Uncle John, of mimicking his voice and of reproducing his handwriting. If it be objected that the message contains high and lofty and even Christian sentiments, it may be replied that the evil spirit is deliberately adopting this role in order to deceive us and lead us on so as to ruin our souls."(Donald Hole, Spiritualism and the Church 1929, pp. 65,67.)

Satan used a demon-possessed witch to bring up a familiar spirit that looked and sounded just like the prophet Samuel to bring about the destruction of King Saul (1 Samuel 28). Now in these last days, Satan is using apparitions of dead saints to deceive the world for its destruction. Do not be deceived the Bible says, "Neither have they any portion under the sun" Ecclesiastes 9:6. The Bible says, "the just shall live by his faith" not by what he sees and hears. We cannot depend on our five senses to understand what is truth, rather only in the Word of God! The Word of God condemns all who attempt to contact the dead. For it is in fact communication with devils

"The Catholic Church would not forbid her children to have anything at all to do with this insidious form of necromancy unless she was satisfied that harm only and no good comes out of it. Her experience of Spiritualism covers nearly two thousand years, and she seems to regard it, not as a means of getting into communion with saints, but as a snare trapping you into communion with devils(Bernard Vaughan, Foreword, in Elliot O';Donnell, The Menace of Spiritualism (London: T. Werner Laurie, [1920]), pp. 13.)


"The Romans at first buried their dead in family catacombs, which were excavated outside the city walls and protected by law, but later Romans preferred cremation. The Christians continued the practice of interring the dead in Catacombs, which they called koimetaria, or "sleeping places," to suggest, that for a Christian, death was merely sleep before resurrection."(Funk and Wagnall's Encyclopedia, Article on, Catacombs.)

At death man is asleep in the grave not knowing anything nor having any thoughts until the resurrection. There to awake to either everlasting life, of everlasting destruction. "The hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." John 5:28,29. The Bible refers to death as a sleep 66 times. Clearly this is what happens at death! Christians "Sleep in Jesus'; Thessalonians 4:14. "Consider and hear, O LORD my God: lighten my eyes, LEST I SLEEP THE SLEEP OF DEATH" Psalm 13:3

Deut. 31:16__"Thou (Moses) shall sleep with thy fathers"
 Sam. 7:12__"Thou (David) shalt sleep with thy fathers"
 Kings 1:21__ "The king shall sleep with his fathers"
 Kings 2:10__ "So David slept with His fathers"
Job 3_13__ "I should have slept"
Job 7:21__ "Now shall I sleep"
 Psalm 76:5__ "They have slept their sleep"
 Jer. 51:39__ "And sleep a perpetual sleep."
Daniel 12:2__ "Them that sleep in the dust."
Matthew 9:24__ "Is not dead, but sleepeth."
 I Cor. 15:6__ "some are fallen asleep"
 I Cor. 15:51__ "we shall not all sleep"
 Thess. 4:13 "concerning them which are asleep"
 II Peter 3:4 "Since the fathers fell asleep"
John 11:11,14__ "He saith unto them, our friend Lazarus sleepeth... Then Jesus spake unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead."

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It's an interesting topic, rob. I remember that you used to post a lot about pictograms in Hebrew.

I was with a group of Jews this evening, celebrating Hanukah, and the conversation turned to translations of the Tanakh, particularly the KJV. I was told that it is a poetic translation as some of it is not translated according to the correct meaning of the Hebrew - particularly the book of Isaiah (naturally). We weren't able to get on to the subject of the state of the dead but I did note that they are expecting the resurrection of the dead when the Messiah comes.

You've intrigued me with mention of Jeff Benner and Miles Jones, I will have to see if I have time to look at them.

Not sure how Ron Wyatt fits in to this but I knew Ron well and worked with him 20-something years ago. We had some very interesting conversations whilst travelling across Australia - I was dispatched at one point to check out some of the discoveries as I had been living in the Middle East. Very interesting. AFAIK most of the Jews today speak Yiddish rather than Hebrew, especially Biblical Hebrew, so their books are reserved to the rabbis.

Thanks for your reply Rob Your suggestion about Email is a good one I post my E-mail address on your private inbox

As you said Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded "translated" unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

I am no expert on Greek or Hebrew words, so what I do is compare different translations and the commentary of EGW.

Luk 24:27  Then Jesus took them through the writings of Moses and all the prophets, explaining from all the Scriptures the things concerning himself. NLT

27  And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself. NKJV

27  And beginning from Moses, and from all the prophets, He explained to them the things about Himself in all the Scriptures. LITV

27  And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. KJV

27  Then he began with Moses' Teachings and the Prophets to explain to them what was said about him throughout the Scriptures. GW

27  And Jesus explained to them what was said about himself in all the Scriptures, beginning with the books of Moses and the writings of all the prophets. GNB

27  And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself. ESV

27  Then, starting with Moshe and all the prophets, he explained to them the things that can be found throughout the Tanakh concerning himself. (Complete Jewish Bible)

27  Jesus then explained everything written about himself in the Scriptures, beginning with the Law of Moses and the Books of the Prophets. CEV

So going by comparing those different versions I come to the understanding that Jesus was expanding on what the texts said about Him. Some bible study that would have been I would love to have been able to listen in on that.

EGW Says this in DA chapter 83 “The Walk to Emmaus”

“Then He said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into His glory?” The disciples wondered who this stranger could be, that He should penetrate to their very souls, and speak with such earnestness, tenderness, and sympathy, and with such hopefulness. For the first time since Christ’s betrayal, they began to feel hopeful. Often they looked earnestly at their companion, and thought that His words were just the words that Christ would have spoken. They were filled with amazement, and their hearts began to throb with joyful expectation. {DA 796.3}

Beginning at Moses, the very Alpha of Bible history, Christ expounded in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself. Had He first made Himself known to them, their hearts would have been satisfied. In the fullness of their joy they would have hungered for nothing more. But it was necessary for them to understand the witness borne to Him by the types and prophecies of the Old Testament. Upon these their faith must be established. Christ performed no miracle to convince them, but it was His first work to explain the Scriptures. They had looked upon His death as the destruction of all their hopes. Now He showed from the prophets that this was the very strongest evidence for their faith. {DA 796.4}

And EGW confirms my understanding

Love your style Elijah. "I compare different translations and the commentary of EGW"

Different approach to mine.

This is what I do:

When you come across a language with words you do NOT understand, you look up all the contexts where that word used, (I trust the KJV ) and make your judgement from there:

Here are all the contexts:

Lu 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

 Ac 9:36 ¶ Now there was at Joppa a certain disciple named Tabitha, which by interpretation is called Dorcas: this woman was full of good works and almsdeeds which she did.
1Co 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
1Co 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
1Co 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
1Co 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
(KJV)

Than you make that word have a single basic meaning that fits all the contexts:

Lu 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he "translated" unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
Ac 9:36 ¶ Now there was at Joppa a certain disciple named Tabitha, which by "translation" is called Dorcas: this woman was full of good works and almsdeeds which she did.
1Co 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all "interpret or translate"?
1Co 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he "interpret or translate", that the church may receive edifying.
1Co 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may "interpret or translate".
1Co 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one "interpret or translate".
(KJV)

The KJV uses a different English word, "expound", but this is similar to "interpret" or "translate".

So part of this implies expanding or explaining the types and prophecies of Jesus, but if your speaking an unknown language, this process is just one of translating your language to another the person knows. I suspect both of these were done because Jews today read Hebrew words differently to myself and also from Jesus.

EGW begins with Moses, and adds "very Alpha of Bible history" why "Alpha"? Its the first letter of Hebrew and Greek, the spelling are close to each other, aleph or alaph in Hebrew and Alpha in Greek.

"But it was necessary for them to understand the witness borne to Him by the types and prophecies of the Old Testament"

We see Jesus was in the Exodus, as EGW says. But you should try convincing a Jew who reads Hebrew that Jesus was there in the Exodus... you can't, but EGW says He was there? See the problem?

I think part of the problem is how we "expound" the text:

Ex 14:13 And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the LORD, which he will shew to you to day: for the Egyptians whom ye have seen to day, ye shall see them again no more for ever. (KJV)

Or does it also say Fear ye not, stand still, and see Yeshua-YHWH ?

I trust the King James Version.  But I use the New King James Version.  The dead know nothing.

Greetings Andrew, when you say you trust the KJV what do you mean?

It means I believe it can lead a person to Jesus fully but im not swayed by the received text or minority text or whatever text just that the bible saves as best Jesus could.  and that we have to compare scripture with scripture.

as the bible tells us to.

Thanks for your reply Rob as you said

"We see Jesus was in the Exodus, as EGW says. But you should try convincing a Jew who reads Hebrew that Jesus was there in the Exodus... you can't, but EGW says He was there? See the problem?" 

Yes true I see the problem but Jews did never accept Jesus and can therefore never come to the understanding that God gave to EGW. We need to understand that the prophetic understanding evolves as God opens our minds. And as the Jews rejected Jesus as the Son of God they will never understand. And are in danger of losing their salvation as the new requirement is that we accept Jesus and the Holy Spirit. 

Thanks JohnB for your kind words and interest. If you can find the time check out Jeff Benner's website and Miles Jones U Tube video. Glad you knew Ron Wyatt those years, your lucky.

Your lucky to have Hebrew people you can talk to.

As for state of dead, I listened to a Rabbi once and find he mixes his terms. They speak of an eternal soul, thus the soul never dies, only departs the body. They mix the term ruwach which is eternal, the Holy Spirit who administrates the breath of the Father's power in us, as dust, as we become in relationship with the Holy Spirit, a living soul, or nephesh. Somehow the Rabbi mixes ruwach for soul, and forgets the nephesh is only mortal.

Most religions say we have an immortal part in us that never dies. It's true, but its not a part of man, its the Holy Spirit, who returns to GOD taking our recorded character with its doings back to GOD.

This is what the Hebrew Scriptures say, IMO.

How do Jews can confused over nephesh and ruwach, I am not sure. Never had a Jew explain this to me? perhaps you might know?

Shalom

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