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If an economy collapses can it CAUSE the WORLD to do anything. What happens when an entire economy collapses? Does this country's power in the world increase or decrease? 

Any power that CAUSES the WORLD to do anything can never do it from a powerless or weak vantage point it MUST be from a point of great strength and power.

Therefore all those posts talking about the doom of the American economy better rethink their positions. Begin to see what has not be shown, hear what has not been said and understand what has not been explained, otherwise you will be deceived.  

I admonish you to pay closer attention to what happens in the religious world and not the political world. It is always the religious powers that are influencing the political powers therefore keep your eyes on the religious leaders. 

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The United States may not play a role at all in these end-time events; it maybe too weaken to cause anyone to worship a beast.

The beast that you saw was, and now is no more, but is about to come up out of the abyss and go to its destruction.

Who is this beast? Obviously not the pope; the pope doesn’t have to rise out of the abyss, he is very visible in today’s world.

This beast power that is about to come up out of the abyss will be the economic and military power of the end-time and will somehow align itself with ten other nation (kings) as we read here.

12The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but will receive one hour of authority as kings, along with the beast. 13These kings have one purpose: to yield their power and authority to the beast.

These ten nations aligned with this beast (whomever it is) and will be guided or controlled by a religious figure or a church system.

…The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.

The woman doesn’t just sit, she’s enthroned, and has been enthroned over every world’s power and economic system that has arisen. (Revelation 18:9)

7"To the degree that she glorified herself and lived sensuously, to the same degree give her torment and mourning; for she says in her heart, 'I SIT as A QUEEN AND I AM NOT A WIDOW…

This beast  will be in power at Christ coming, and it seems it will be directed by a religious power.

14They will make war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will triumph over them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings…

Here’s another scene: Revelation 19:19

19And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image…

Here’s a play by play:

I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.

The kings of the earth must be the ten kings that have aligned themselves with the beast?

…the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image…

Here we can see it is the false prophet who causes those to receive the mark of the beast and to worship it.

Revelation 13:11 says,

11Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb and he spoke as a dragon. 12He exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence. And he makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed.

This second beast obviously must also be the false prophet because it says,

….the false prophet performed the signs in the beast presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image.

Is any of these power the United States of America? Personally speaking I would have to say I don't believe so. At some point in the future America’s military power or their willingness to use its military strength in the world as we have seen, will continue to decline to the point it may become a Paper Tiger.

Economically the dollar is still king in the world economy with the Euro being the second mostly used currency.  If the beast coming up out of the abyss of Europe this could cause a paradigm shift in the world’s financial markets causing a decline of the dollar as well as the US economy.

I understand what you’re saying in your post and I do agree with the assumption, but I’m not personally convinced at this point and time that the United States is a beast power at all.


You must be a school teacher, I’m sure I’ve heard that tone before: please study the prophecies chapter again in a deliberate manner…. That’s funny!

Studying is relative.  How do you study, do you ask question as you go through your  study or are you content with information provided?

Here’s a 2011 article entitled, Vatican urges economic reforms, condemns collective greed.  It is quite reflective of the prophecy of Revelation 13:16.

And it causes all the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the servants, that it should give them a mark on their right hand or on their forehead…

Some Bibles says, “He requires everyone.”

The CAUSE is not going to begin with dictatorial force, it going to begin with a necessary need.

Here are some excerpts from the article:

The Vatican called on Monday for sweeping reforms of the world economy and the creation of a ethical, global authority to regulate financial markets as demonstrations against corporate greed continued to spring up in major cities across the globe.

An 18-page document from the Vatican's Justice and Peace department said the financial downturn had revealed behaviours like "selfishness, collective greed and hoarding of goods on a great scale," adding that world economics needed an "ethic of solidarity" among rich and poor nations….

The Vatican called for the establishment of "a supranational authority" with worldwide scope and "universal jurisdiction" to guide economic policies and decisions.

The Vatican said the International Monetary Fund (IMF) no longer had the power or ability to stabilise world finance by regulating overall money supply and it was no longer able to watch "over the amount of credit risk taken on by the system."

….The world needed a "minimum shared body of rules to manage the global financial market" and "some form of global monetary management."

The document acknowledged that such change would take years to put into place and was bound to encounter resistance.

"Of course, this transformation will be made at the cost of a gradual, balanced transfer of a part of each nation's powers to a world authority and to regional authorities, but this is necessary at a time when the dynamism of human society and the economy and the progress of technology are transcending borders, which are in fact already very eroded in a globalised world." {The End}

This document is an official Vatican document, these are its plans, and they are already in work; it will be gradual.

And he requires (cause, force) everyone--small and great, rich and poor, free and slave--to be given a mark on his right hand or on his forehead,

The Vatican is doing what it has done throughout its history.  It works behind the scene, while looking like a lamb, yet its plans are being implemented.  Look at the American/ Cuban agreement, Pope Francis wasn’t the only pope who worked toward that end; it was the Vatican. This system have time, it’s been around for almost 2000 years.

You are correct and I agree, whoever evokes these actions will have to do it from a position of strength; or perhaps the power of persuasion?

…14And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who had the wound of the sword and has come to life.

Signs and miracles are spiritual, religious undertakens, obviously perpetrated by a false religious leader (I wonder where we could find such a person?).

Here is the same article from different sources:

I think the United State is going to become a powerless player, and play a limited role if any in the formation of this economic beast that will do the CAUSING. The US will probably continue to be a military power to some degree, but as a nation it will lose its influential powers. Therefore it will no longer play a leading role in world events.

 When the US economy falters again, the world markets will not only look, but find another monetary system and currency that it will deem stable enough for this century and beyond. Maybe it will be a cashless system that is also in the works.

The Cashless Society -- Contemplating The Ultimate Surrender To Gov...

Remember the beast will be in authority when Christ comes, it will fight Christ at his coming.

Hi Kat,

We don't know in what order things may happen, whether there will be a financial collapse or when, but I would say we don't have any basis to say for certain that financial collapse won't be part of that.

Because, for example, if the US economy collapses it will cause a domino effect around the entire world so that all nations in the world are in the midst of economic disaster and no nation is stronger than any other - all is disaster.  There may also be more fighting, riots, political unrest and/or wars at the same time - and at a time of such great upheaval the US could work together with the Vatican to come up with a world-wide "solution" that venerates the Pope as a great world leader and "savior."

You're right in saying that people shouldn't proclaim exactly what they think is going to happen and when (of ideas outside of what has been prophetically revealed).  But by the same reasoning you should also not try to proclaim what you think will not happen - otherwise you are doing the very same thing as those who say what they think is going to happen.  Do you see what I'm saying?

It's best for each one of us to prepare our hearts by examining ourselves before God, because if we are too confident and careless the day may come upon us when we are not ready.  At the same time, we don't need to be fearful- but there must be a balance of healthy respect for God and trust in His ability to care for us through the time of trouble.

God bless.

Through emphasis on animals which represent kingdoms and world powers, the studies of Daniel and Revelation repeatedly point out what it happening with world politics historically and in the end times.  The Bible does not point us to only focus on what is happening with religious leaders - it foretells the rise and fall of nations and kingdoms.  If the Pope is made a major world figure it is going to involve politics, not just religion - and we can see that already with how much the Pope is getting involved with political matters between nations.

May the Lord bless you.

the united states i believe has a role and it is found in chapter 13 verse 11 of revelation. the two horns like a lamb represent church and state or religious and political. a lamb in the bible represents Christ. but later speaks as a dragon which represents satan

clearly we can see these events happening right now as america is changing

i do not think we should focus our attention on one man a pope but a false system that has adulterated the word of God. pope Francis is not beyond being saved

I use to hold that view as well, but if you were a detective you would have to conclude there is no evidence that conclusively concludes that.

Let’s us your example of the two horns like a lamb. Horns denotes the power of an animal or in this case this beast. The papacy functions from dual roles: one he’s the head and leader of the world leading Christian religious church, and two he’s the reigning king of the Vatican nation. He has diplomatic relationship with more than a 100 nation in the world out of the 192 official countries. He looks like a lamb and he operates under these two powerful horns; religious and political.

I’m not talking about a man, but an age old system because if this pope dies a new one will be elected and the music will keep on rolling.


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