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MATT 8

And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him,

And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented.

And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him.

The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.

For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.

10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

 

LUKE 7

 

7 Now when he had ended all his sayings in the audience of the people, he entered into Capernaum.

And a certain centurion's servant, who was dear unto him, was sick, and ready to die.

And when he heard of Jesus, he sent unto him the elders of the Jews, beseeching him that he would come and heal his servant.

And when they came to Jesus, they besought him instantly, saying, That he was worthy for whom he should do this:

For he loveth our nation, and he hath built us a synagogue.

Then Jesus went with them. And when he was now not far from the house, the centurion sent friends to him, saying unto him, Lord, trouble not thyself: for I am not worthy that thou shouldest enter under my roof:

Wherefore neither thought I myself worthy to come unto thee: but say in a word, and my servant shall be healed.

For I also am a man set under authority, having under me soldiers, and I say unto one, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.

When Jesus heard these things, he marvelled at him, and turned him about, and said unto the people that followed him, I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

10 And they that were sent, returning to the house, found the servant whole that had been sick.

 

of course given the sins of Rome and  Roman Soldiers being transplanted thru out the Empire (psst.. ISRAEL) to make sure of stability and whatnot... :P

A Gay Centurion
Comes Out To Jesus

For many centuries before Matthew and Luke wrote their Gospels, the Greek word pais was commonly used to refer to the younger partner in a same sex relationship. The younger partner was often an adult male but was sometimes a teenager.

The use of pais in this social and historical context leads some to believe that the story of the Roman centurion and his pais in Matthew 8 and Luke 7 tells the real story of the day Jesus met and blessed a gay man. Although this understanding of the text is controversial, it is important for us to discuss and understand it in our conversation about the Bible and homosexuality.

As we begin our study of this true story about a gay Centurion, from Matthew 8:5-13 & Luke 7:1-10, it is important to remember that we are two thousand years removed from these events. For that reason, traditionalists cannot prove their contention, that the centurion and his pais-servant, were not same sex lovers. It is equally impossible to prove to everyone’s satisfaction, that this was a gay centurion and his pais-beloved-gay lover.

 


Jesus meets
a gay centurion


If we cannot prove, to everyone’s satisfaction, that this story is about a gay centurion, why bother discussing this controversy?

The short answer is that scripture is important and what we believe, based on scripture, is important. For centuries, the organized church has insisted gay people are never presented in the Bible in a positive light.

Many Christians refuse to believe that God would include a positive story about a gay Centurion in the Bible. In recent centuries, many openly gay Christians have been excluded from the spiritual life of the church.

Our goal is to examine the available evidence. If the evidence and a faithful, believing approach to scripture supports the understanding that this story is about a gay centurion and his pais-same sex lover, that dramatic fact should be public knowledge.

there was paganism/temple rites and pediophilia and sexual slavery in the empire also in honour of their own gods and whims

SOME CAME TO THE SAVING KNOWLEDGE AND SAD JUST LIKE WITH THE HETEROSEXUAL COUNTERPARTS MANY DID NOT

CAUSE PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE WHEREVER YOU GO

:)

Jesus never asked what lifestyle they live before HE healed them

Who ever so ever came to HIM was healed

period!

 

MAN WHAT A GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

can anyone else think of a better way to share to a broken LGBTQIAA

to open the heart to this wonderful GOD for ultimate healing?

ouside of John 3:16 and Jer 31:3 Zeph 3:17  Rom 5:8 and Rom 8:1.. well i can go on and on :)

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Mathew 18:8-9, "If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell."

There is no special dispensation for homosexual lust as there is none for heterosexual lust.

MFG,

It's like two unmarriad people who are attracted to each other sexes decide to stay together and then tell others that they don't have sex. They just look at each other and talk about ice cream, geography, news, politics, etc. But sex, nah nah! It's a no go area. They don't touch each other. Yet they are engaged in a crusade to encourage people to embrace sexuality.

Give me a break!! Who can honestly buy this gabbage? 

Mutinta.

MFG,

It's like two unmarriad people who are attracted to each other sexes decide to stay together and then tell others that they don't have sex. They just look at each other and talk about ice cream, geography, news, politics, etc. But sex, nah nah! It's a no go area. They don't touch each other. Yet they are engaged in a crusade to encourage people to embrace sexuality.

Give me a break!! Who can honestly buy this gabbage?

.............................

HI AGAIN Mutinta Nteeni

its your choice to believe me or not to believe me

just like it is my choice to believe you or not when u tell me something

i found a post i shared in May of 2014 that maybe can help u understand God's power and design

WE TOOK IN A CHURCH MEMBER link

read the pretty pink part of the OP for sure :)

one of these days i would like to flesh it out more

please read carefully and closely

i look forward to you thoughts

GBU

#talking about ice cream and JESUS  never gets old :)

Mutinta,

these questions are highly unacceptable and offensive for several reasons.

1: Since when do we ask anyone, be it heterosexual or homosexual, who states he is single and living celibate about his past? Like the last 10 years ho often did you commit sin? Seriously?! Would you even dream of asking that question to any heterosexual single person...? I am very sure you would and did not as of yet. I have not seen any kind of questioning happening as example when raymond states he lives a celibate life as a heterosexual.

2: You are directly violating something which we call sphere of privacy and that only because your bias and prejudices. Unless you ask the very same questions of your heterosexual peers you are setting 2 kinds of standards for people. 1 for homosexuals where you feel you have the right to invade their private sphere and the other for heterosexuals where you do not do so.

Seriously you just show over and over again how much the church and its members follow the double standards principle today. That is totally unjustified (unbliblical) and unacceptable.

Regards

Manuala, 

I knew those were sensitive but since he was open I thought maybe he was willing to educate. It's the link he sent me which made me come with those so that I understand.  

You see two sets of people, heterosexual and homosexual. I see one. With the other struggling with homosexual sin. I still consider it sin. Just like I consider drunkeness, fornication, etc. 

For example if it was about drunkeness and someone was saying it was ok, I would have asked similar questions. 

Sin is sin. Let's not be unkind to one struggling with it in the name of love. I certainly wouod want you to help me. Not make me comfortable. No. 

That's what u are doing. It's not fair and their blood will be on you. 

MFG, if you are uncomfortable answering, sorry. Tell me and I shall delete all my comments on this. I honestly want u to "see it" and get real help.

God  indeed bless u.

Mutitna.

Wait i need to sort the order o the quotes here to make sense and tart at the beginning:

"For example if it was about drunkeness and someone was saying it was ok, I would have asked similar questions. "

Actually i disagree there Mutinta and your track record shows you did not. You consider the sexual orientation already a sin, which it is not (even our Church says so in the official statements here), therefore you do have indeed 2 sets of standards. You never ever asked a heterosexual here on this forum who stated he is single/celibate these questions. The problem is you start already completely wrong by declaring one kind of sexual orientation as sin and the other not.

"Sin is sin. Let's not be unkind to one struggling with it in the name of love. I certainly wouod want you to help me. Not make me comfortable. No. 

That's what u are doing. It's not fair and their blood will be on you."

Homosexual orientation is not sin.

Furthermore there are people which have different understanding of what is sin or should be considered sin and only because you see something as black or white does not make it truth all the time. Especially homosexuality is such a so called "hot topic" which divides the church into 3 more or less same sized sections of people and it is nearly impossible to find a common ground if either group starts with ultimatives. 

"You see two sets of people, heterosexual and homosexual. I see one. With the other struggling with homosexual sin. I still consider it sin. Just like I consider drunkeness, fornication, etc. "

I never said or stated i see 2 sets of people. I said and i still stay to that that on this forum in our church and in religious communities in general we see 2 sets of standards applied. 1 very harsh standard for the minority with a homosexual orientation and another set of standard applied to the heterosexual majority. There are a lot of examples to be found on this forum or in our church manual.

i.e.: We do not ask or question the sincerity if someone is heterosexual and single and states he lives celibate. If someone says he is homosexual and is single and lives celibate we not only question the sincerity of the statement but further we think we have the right to invade their privacy with questions or better stated interrogations.

i.e.: We allow sexual sins (after the standards of the bible) to continue and live openly in our Churches. Remarriages as example yet we completely forbid the same for minorities.

i.e.: Our Church states that we do not have discipline punishments when a child is born outside of wedlock, which is in 99,99% of the cases ultimate prove of pre-marriage sex, yet we do have indeed discipline and punishments in place if someone simply states he is homosexual with no prove of any sexual activity whatsoever.

So yes as you can see we do have 2 standards to judge people differently in our Church and that itself is for sure the bigger sin and if scripture holds truth, which we both belief it does, is very troublesome. Scripture does teach us about double standards:

"Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you." Mat 7:1-2

If the same measurement and standard is applied to the majority of people judging homosexuals than i fear thats going to be a pretty harsh sentencing and not one, those applying these standards and measures today, will enjoy or surpass.

Regards

Manuala,
Fair enough. However allow me to point out something.
1. God intended in the beginning for us to have a heterosexual orientation. All of us. Adam and Eve were to multiply etc.
2. Homosexuality came as a distortion of God's ideal. Sin caused it. Sin did not cause heterosexual orientation. No no no!
3. If a heterosexual person commits fornication, they do not justify and run a campaign. No. They call it sin. They may fall again but they still call it sin.
4. You are suggesting by your comments that a celibate homosexual is not sinning. I agree. If means he has urges to have sex with with men but by God's grace he refuses. He even encourages others by his example to show that it's possible to abstain and remain faithful to God and serve him. More like a eunuch. That's ok.
5. However that's not what I see here, the celibate one here will go on parades where men are basically showing how they love each other, kissing g etc and say guys accept us. We like same sex. That's sin. Do u agree?
6. The celibate homosexual will not categorically say sex between man and man was and is not God's plan. But they deceptively use sementics like u are doing here, and before we know it marriage is ok between man and man.
7. We are still yet to see a virgin homosexual. They experiment and find it good and then struggle to overcome until they say, oh well am a homosexual. Most are involved in sex before "marriage" already and it's in that state that they want recognition.
8. We do have many virgin examples of celibate heterosexuals. Kindly provide one for homosexual. A biblical one will avoid interfering with the privacy of others. There are a lot in the bible. Actually so much so that those who did it before marriage were punished.

The main issue is you want to be deceptive. But I can smell it from afar off. U want to seem to say being celibate as a homosexual is not sin. Of course I i agree with this. But Yiu actually ARE OK WITH MAN SLEEPING WITH MAN! Since there were no legal marriages for a long time, to Yiu it was o key for them to engage in sex as long as they were adults and consented. Am I not telling the truth about u? Are you telling me that you can heartily run a campaign denounces same sex marriage and encouraging celibacy?

The bible says "avoid all appearances of evil". If u love MFG and u want him to remain celibate, and protect his image, u would encourage him not to stay with gay friend whom he likes ad chances are he will end up having sex. And of course the appearance of evil to us is clear. Just like u would not like a former pedophile to work with with children, a confessed homosexual should be encouraged to avoid those things that led him into that lifestyle. That's being kind and a christian.
Blessings

Mutinta.

I'm probably very late for this party, but I have never read or considered that the relationship was "gay" in any way.  Americans are very funny about sex, and fail to realize that traditions and practices are normal in other times and countries.  For instance, in Saudi Arabia men walking down a street will often walk hand-in-hand.  This would not be done in the U.S.  My reading of these passages was that the Centurion, even though a Roman, was kind to the Jews and had built them a temple.  He had love (brotherly love) for his servant (the younger man) and was concerned for his health, and his faith in Jesus (which surprised Him) is what healed the servant through the intervention of the spoken word(s) of Jesus, our Lord.

There's no reason to assume that it's a homosexual relationship based solely on the use of that one word.  The fact that the story indicates this man was very loyal to the Jews and even built them a synagogue shows that He was likely supportive of their beliefs and teachings, which were clearly against homosexuality because they were based on the Bible.

 

Nevertheless Jesus loved and blessed many people that were sinners, likely including people who were involved in every form of sexual perversion – but He loved them in spite of their sins, not approving of their sins, and His message was always "go and sin no more, (lest a worse thing come upon you)."

Pais (Strong's):

Original Word: παῖς, παιδός, ὁ, ἡ Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine; Noun, Masculine Transliteration: pais Phonetic Spelling: (paheece) Short Definition: a boy or girl child Definition: (a) a male child, boy, (b) a male slave, servant; thus: a servant of God, especially as a title of the Messiah, (c) a female child, girl.

 

Pais (KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon):

 Definition 1. a child, boy or girl  a.infants, children

2. servant, slave  a.an attendant, servant, spec. a king's attendant, minister

I think you may have mis-spoken or mis-written, Vicki.  Their beliefs and teachings could not have been based on the Bible because the Hebrew faith does not use that text.  You are probably thinking of the Torah and other writings of the rabbis that are used in temples.  Also, the Bible as we know it today was assembled and approved over several hundred years after the death of our Lord, Jesus Christ.

It's not mis-speaking to call the Old Testament the Bible.  They had all of what we have in the Old Testament during their time as well.  Their entire belief system was based on those writings, and many things out of the Old Testament are referred to by Jesus and New Testament writers such as Paul.

 

I am not referring to the teachings of the Rabbis, which were often erroneous.

 

May the Lord bless you.

Oh, I see what you are saying.  OK, I will accept that.  It was jarring to me because it was not historically nor religiously accurate as the Bible did not then exist.  If I remember correctly, I believe it is the first five books of the Old Testament that come from the Torah.

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