How long will the little time of trouble last?
Reasoning wrote: Brother Ian, the two views has to blend... The 144,000 are literal amount humans (saints), and they also represent the greater harvest of saints that's gathered during the Loud Cry.
Thanks for your reply Brother Reasoning and all the quotes you present. And yes it came to me that all numbers God has given in Revelation are literal at least those that we have seen fulfilled so yes it stands to reason that the ones not yet have come to be will also be literal, as we know to understand who those are in the 144'000 is not a salvific issue.
I did follow your and JohnB's discussion with interest and I always thought your view was the correct one.
Thanks again Blessings to you.
Ian wrote: "Thanks for your reply Brother Reasoning and all the quotes you present. And yes it came to me that all numbers God has given in Revelation are literal at least those that we have seen fulfilled so yes it stands to reason that the ones not yet have come to be will also be literal, as we know to understand who those are in the 144'000 is not a salvific issue.
I did follow your and JohnB's discussion with interest and I always thought your view was t
Your welcome brother Ian, thank you.... Yes, knowing "who" exactly are the 144,000 is not a salvific issue.. I will say knowing what the Bible and SOP say about them as a people and their mission here on earth is very important. Because what's describe in SOP is an issue pertaining to the 144,000 and the SDA Church.
EGW: "The true people of God, who have the spirit of the work of the Lord and the salvation of souls at heart, will ever view sin in its real, sinful character. They will always be on the side of faithful and plain dealing with sins which easily beset the people of God. Especially in the closing work for the church, in the sealing time of the one hundred and forty-four thousand who are to stand without fault before the throne of God, will they feel most deeply the wrongs of God’s professed people. This is forcibly set forth by the prophet’s illustration of the last work under the figure of the men each having a slaughter weapon in his hand. One man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer’s inkhorn by his side. “And the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.” – 3T p.266
Who are standing in the counsel of God at this time? Is it those who virtually excuse wrongs among the professed people of God and who murmur in their hearts, if not openly, against those who would reprove sin? Is it those who take their stand against them and sympathize with those who commit wrong? No, indeed! Unless they repent, and leave the work of Satan in oppressing those who have the burden of the work and in holding up the hands of sinners in Zion, they will never receive the mark of God’s sealing approval. They will fall in the general destruction of the wicked, represented by the work of the five men bearing slaughter weapons. Mark this point with care: Those who receive the pure mark of truth, wrought in them by the power of the Holy Ghost, represented by a mark by the man in linen, are those “that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done” in the church. Their love for purity and the honor and glory of God is such, and they have so clear a view of the exceeding sinfulness of sin, that they are represented as being in agony, even sighing and crying. Read the ninth chapter of Ezekiel. – 3T p.267
SOP in the writings of EGW says there's people in the SDA church doing the work of Satan, they are ".. oppressing those who have the burden of the work and in holding up the hands of sinners in Zion,...", mainly the 144,000. It's so big of an issue brother Ian that Ezekiel 9 is reference. Taylor Bunch said its the shaking that's to take place in the Church.
Taylor Bunch wrote (Signs of the time 1950): "Likewise just before the "latter rain" of spiritual power which brings the final gospel harvest to maturity, the first-fruits sheaf must pass through a similar sifting, shaking, and purifying process to qualify this group for their special mission. The 144,000 constitute a selected company who are brought to perfection or maturity through a special experience, and who therefore became "the first fruits unto God and to the Lamb." That they are purified by a shaking or sifting experience is evident from the following texts: Ezekiel 20:35-38; Amos 9:9,10; Revelation 3:10-12, 4-16. The Laodicean message produces a shaking which is followed by the outpouring of the Holy Spirit "on all flesh" and the gathering in of the great harvest."
My brother, we agree Jesus is our only Salvation.. Nothing we can do or know can save us. However not doing or knowing GOD'S Will can cause us to lost out on what GOD has giving us freely, and that's Salvation through HIS Son Jesus Christ.
I mean "...those who virtually excuse wrongs among the professed people of God and who murmur in their hearts, if not openly, against those who would reprove sin.. " and "... those who take their stand against them and sympathize with those who commit wrong..." aren't doing The Will of GOD, they are doing Satans work.
The question we have to ask is, if we accept Jesus as our Savior and have faith that His Merits & Righteousness is fully sufficient to save us, does that still remain if we go against the Will of GOD and do the work of Satan?
Can we continue to break HIS Commandments, teach and be deceived by false doctrines up until the time Jesus comes and expect to be saved?
1 Cor.6: 9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Pray for me as I will for you and your family... Because I'm dealing couple things on that list... One is idolatry, a person doesn't have to bow to statues to commit idolatry. Things I watch on tv makes me idolater... My career and trying to make money can make me idolater and greedy. Thank GOD I'm not where I use to be, but I can do better.
Peace & Love!
You really see people not being able to buy and sell for 3.5 years? Three and a half long years of not being able to buy and sell?
Do not mix apples and oranges, in an attempt to bring confusion,Will. We are talking about TIME prophecies not about the state of the dead or when the faithful dead will be raised.
If you are going to take symbols literally you are going to have beasts marking people on the forehead or right hand. The problem with your taking time prophecies literally is that it undermines and eliminates the prophecy that anchors the ministry of Christ and the very time of His baptism and death on the cross. your futuristic approach to prophecy attacks the divine ministry of the Messiah.
Ultimately the attack will, and as we have already seen on this forum has be on the law of God and particularly the 4th commandment.
Daniel has not risen to His inheritance. However the 1335 has been fulfilled.
"At the end of thy days" is after the days are over.
We must remember that the Lord delayeth His coming. He has been tarrying. It was His desire to come long before this.
It is not only Daniel but all the faithful that will rise after the days are over. The Lord would have come long before now but His people were not ready.
There has been a tarrying time " Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. vs. 12