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Can anybody help me understand, how are we to survive the little time of trouble if we are to sell up our houses? It seems you sell homes during the little time of trouble (Sunday law starts) and when greater time of Jacob's trouble starts (flee into moutains - death decree) so is this what the advice of Mrs White talking about ?               

 

 

EGW QUOTE"Houses and lands will be of no use to the saints in the time of trouble, for they will then have to flee before infuriated mobs, and at that time their possessions cannot be disposed of to advance the cause of present truth. I was shown that it is the will of God that the saints should cut loose from every encumbrance before the time of trouble comes, and make a covenant with God through sacrifice. If they have their property on the altar, and earnestly inquire of God for duty, He will teach them when to dispose of  these things. Then they will be free in the time of trouble, and have no clogs to weigh them down.  {CS 59.4}  (Is this not the greater time of trouble ?)

 


     I saw that if any held on to their property, and did not inquire of the Lord as to their duty, He would not make duty known, and they would be permitted to keep their property, and in the time of trouble it would come up before them like a mountain to crush them, and they would try to dispose of it, but would not be able. I heard some mourn like this: "The cause was languishing, God's people were starving for the truth, and we made no effort to supply the lack; now our property is useless. O that we had let it go, and laid up treasure in heaven!"  {CS 60.1} 


     I saw that a sacrifice did not increase, but it decreased and was consumed. I also saw that God had not required all of His people to dispose of their property at the same time, but if they desired to be taught, He would teach them, in a time of need, when to sell and how much to sell. Some have been required to dispose of their property in times past to sustain the advent cause, while others have been permitted to keep theirs until a time of need. Then, as the cause needs it, their duty is to sell.--EW 56, 57.  {CS 60.2}

 

I get the impression when SUnday Law starts we lives in the country in our homes, as SUnday law penalties get more extreme, God impresses us to sell our properties, to help advance the cause of witnessing, this has to happen BEFORE the restriction of buying and selling occurs on all saints....

The Sunday law increasing in severity from 12 months to 24  months, I am not sure, and I would appreciate in just what are the details SOP has given us.

 

Shalom

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Peace,

 

 Hi Brother Rob,

 

  Rob: "Can anybody help me understand, how are we to survive the little time of trouble if we are to sell up our houses? It seems you sell homes during the little time of trouble (Sunday law starts) and when greater time of Jacob's trouble starts (flee into moutains - death decree) so is this what the advice of Mrs White talking about ?  

 

  I believe EGW/SOP speaks clear in this regard... from my understanding, the time of trouble spans alittle time before the Loud cry is giving, and it starts with GOD'S last day Church.

 

  EGW: "We are to be ready and waiting for the orders of God. Nations will be stirred to their very center. Support will be withdrawn from those who proclaim God’s only standard of righteousness, the only sure test of character. And all who will not bow to the decree of the national councils, and obey the national laws to exalt the sabbath instituted by the man of sin to the disregard of God’s holy day, will feel, not the oppressive power of popery alone, but of the Protestant world, the image of the beast....The great issue so near at hand will weed out those whom God has not appointed and he will have a pure, true, sanctified ministry prepared for the latter rain...." 3SM p.385

 

   During this time, just before the Loud Cry/Latter rain, selling houses will be the least of our concern.. Whatever GOD wants us to sell, it would be done before this time, when the nations will be stirred to their very center. Only hope to survive is following the lamb, having faith in His merits and looking towards Him for protection. Having a house during this time is not going to do any good..

  So EGW must be talking about the time before all this starts, maybe during the time we are going to court to stand up for what we believe in, maybe that could be the last chance to sell.. but when the winds get stronger, and laws are passed against us, we won't be able to sell. It all leads up to the death decree law, that is when the Loud Cry starts, and a great ingathering into GOD'S Church takes place. When that is done, that is when the greatest time of trouble starts, with the falling of the last plagues.

  

   EGW QUOTE"Houses and lands will be of no use to the saints in the time of trouble, for they will then have to flee before infuriated mobs, and at that time their possessions cannot be disposed of to advance the cause of present truth. I was shown that it is the will of God that the saints should cut loose from every encumbrance before the time of trouble comes, and make a covenant with God through sacrifice. If they have their property on the altar, and earnestly inquire of God for duty, He will teach them when to dispose of  these things. Then they will be free in the time of trouble, and have no clogs to weigh them down.  {CS 59.4} 

 

  Rob: "(Is this not the greater time of trouble ?)"

 

 

   From what I get, selling houses must take place before any part of the time of trouble, SOP says ""Houses and lands will be of no use to the saints in the time of trouble"...

 

 

  Rob: "I get the impression when SUnday Law starts we lives in the country in our homes, as SUnday law penalties get more extreme, God impresses us to sell our properties, to help advance the cause of witnessing, this has to happen BEFORE the restriction of buying and selling occurs on all saints....

The Sunday law increasing in severity from 12 months to 24  months, I am not sure, and I would appreciate in just what are the details SOP has given us."

 

 

  Yes, I agree... the selling of a house has to happen before the Sunday law... but before the sunday law is law or enforced, their must be something that causes everybody to start getting angry at the SDA Church and those who believe the same.. It might be hard for some to sell at that time... Like you said, the winds gets stronger, Sunday law is enforced, stronger, penalties are added for not observing Sunday, and stronger, the death penalty.

   The time span shouldn't be a concern, being ready should be... and when we see these things happening, we will know what time we're in. So EGW is clear on this I believe, we just have to place evrything in the proper time line.

 

   Blessings!

 

 

Nicely written Reasoning...

 

Chad, the Marion Berry theory was a set of DVD on the grand onslaught series, a few years back now...

I will describe as much as I know....but remember folks its a theory of faith....

 

Some weather crisis or economic crisis or similar starts off a global crisis leading the USA to begin Sunday Law, and according to Marion Berry's take on Daniel 12, becomes global Sunday Law 60 days later.

 

(as you say the timing is of little consequence really)

 

Once Sunday law has begun globally, God will move all or many of us to dispose of property...to remove assets and free up money for the Church to global witness on a grand scale....during the next 12 months the Sunday law gets stronger and move intense, until into the second year, the buying and selling restriction is placed on those who refuse Sunday Law observance and keep Sabbath instead....exactly 1260 literal days later ( if I remember) the death decree, Lucifer comes and the latter rain falls helping the rest of the fold to make moves to enter the truth remnant church (too late for SDA people, we have an early close of probation),  and if we get that far...into the end of time, hopefully some of us will dream visions and dreams and help us with courage and greater faith in Jesus....

 

Ellen White does not detail the general term "time of trouble" very well, and it really includes both little and greater Jacob's trouble....little Jacob's trouble is 1260 days allowing us time to dispose of house, and get ready for exit into mountains, and a further 75 days of greater Jacob's trouble....until Jesus comes !!!

 

Now I may have some details wrong, but when you listen to Back to Enoch audio and presentation, Dave lists the EGW material well into some details...but I have not heard when and how the selling of our homes comes into the picture.....

 

Hope this helps some of us do some research into the end of time now far away now....

SHalom

http://www.temcat.com/006-prophetic-history/Jeff-P/MARION%20BERRY%2...

Here is a starter on Marion Barry theory, a critique.....

Why do we pick on the term "daily' for example, a Hebrew word meaning "continual"

Marion makes the term broad as it should be, the continual abuse of power by paganism

William Millar says "daily" is the "man of sin" or "antichrist power" is really saying the same thing

 

the critique is splitting hairs

 

Anyway that's what I have read of the pdf document so far

 

Shalom

May we all find some help for the days ahead of us

 

 

 

I had found this link a couple hours ago and printed this article out.  I don't know how useful it will be because it is some other SDA preacher (Pippenger) critiquing a teacher with whom he does not agree.  I've found few if any such works from SDAs that anywhere near approach an honest explanation of what the teacher they disagree with has to say.  Much better to get the stuff from Marian Berry herself.

Her stuff is easy to find if you spell her name correctly and avoid all the links that come up regarding the late Marion Berry, the former mayor of Washington, DC who was caught in an FBI drug entrapment scandal and served a little prison time over it.  I'll be reviewing some of this stuff over the next few days and seeing if it is worth anything.  What little I have seen so far, she is very biblically based, much more so than most SDA's, but still approaches the scriptures with the SDA mindset rather than setting aside ALL preconceptions and letting scripture define scripture.  None of us adequately set aside the preconceptions and it turns every scripture lesson we teach into dung (God's description, not mine), but we need to be doing all we can to minimize the amount of dung we add to the word of God.  

Here is one of her videos from that series you mention.  I'm sure they are all there and you should be able to find them posted with this one in some way. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWSED5ziIAM

What does this have to do with the topic on "preparation for times of trouble"?

Just wondering....

Zowi

The title "preparation for times of trouble" comes from the quotes at the beginning of the thread I posted.....

 

The work of Marian Berry is the only detailed theory so far I have ever read from SDA people on the end of time, so I have very little resources to choose from....if you have other details I am happy to review them....as Myron says Pippenger is a lousy critique of her work.....

 

I am particularly interested in  how to we live during the times of trouble, if we don't have property to live on, and eat from?

 

In the Bible as examples of such things, Peter says he left all to follow Jesus, he didn't, because after he denied Jesus, he went back to his fishing boat business and so he didn't dispose of all his property at all....Also Annias didn't sell all assets he had , only a field....

So what context is EGW saying here and what implications are there for us to eat and live if we have no fruit trees or veggies at our disposal? Are we to live in the mountains from the time of trouble? Obviously not....many months of time is devoted to witnessing before the death decree comes and than we flee to the mountains.....

 

SHalom

simple!

Faith!

How was Elijah sustained!

God will provide for the faithful.

 

 That's right. We are to make no provision for this time. Up until  this time yes but not for the Time of Jacob's Trouble.

I have never had it told me it was the time of jacobs trouble. Where do you get that from? Is it only a Mrs White expression ? Or is there Bible verse?

 

 

   

"I saw that the four angels would hold the four winds until Jesus' work was done in the sanctuary, and then will come the seven last plagues. These plagues enraged the wicked against the righteous; they thought that we had brought the judgments of God upon them, and that if they could rid the earth of us, the plagues would then be stayed. A decree went forth to slay the saints, which caused them to
cry day and night for deliverance. This was the time of Jacob's trouble. [See Genesis 32.] Then all the saints cried out with anguish of spirit, and were delivered by the voice of God. The one hundred and forty-four thousand triumphed. Their faces were lighted up with the glory of God. {CET 100.3}

Bible book chapter and verse please.

Kevin cannot supply you with chapter and verse because he never reads the Bible, and quite obviously doesn't read much Ellen White either.  The woman uses this exact phrasing over 80 times, and in around half of them quotes the Bible verse from which she gets this phrase, Jeremiah 30:7. 

It takes very little extra reading to determine her exact definition of this term, the struggle with the angel on the night before meeting Esau on his return to Canaan.  It also only takes reading one verse further in Jeremiah to determine God's definition of this term, which is exile from the land of promise (in this case Canaan).  I see a discrepancy here.

How awful that day will be!
    No other will be like it.
It will be a time of trouble for Jacob,
    but he will be saved out of it.

“‘In that day,’ declares the Lord Almighty,
    ‘I will break the yoke off their necks
and will tear off their bonds;
    no longer will foreigners enslave them.
Instead, they will serve the Lord their God
    and David their king,
    whom I will raise up for them.

 

10 “‘So do not be afraid, Jacob my servant;
    do not be dismayed, Israel,’
declares the Lord.
‘I will surely save you out of a distant place,
    your descendants from the land of their exile.

Jacob will again have peace and security,
    and no one will make him afraid.
11 I am with you and will save you,’
    declares the Lord.
‘Though I completely destroy all the nations
    among which I scatter you,
    I will not completely destroy you.
I will discipline you but only in due measure;
    I will not let you go entirely unpunished.’

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