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I remember James Stump coming with his men to Australia and speaking how Jesus came forth from the Father....interesting idea, but the Bible is silent about Jesus before His incarnation...I like to think they were always there...and time does not exist with already we have a problem....

When you place a cup on a table and the cup journeys with the earth around the sun a million revolutions, the cup made up of its atoms, are just the same age they were before you placed them on the table....time is a meaningless notion scientists cooked up to fool us.... sure the Bible speaks of a passing of events in circles like a journey....but there is not backward or forward eternity....we will in heaven simply enjoy ongoing cycles of living....technically speaking every molecule in our body is about 3 month old, I look old because the telomeres begin a cycle of looking differently than when I was a youth, is a programme built into the DNA by God.

To suggest Jesus was called forth at some point in time , makes TIME God and GOD a lesser being.

The word begotten you quote here refers to Jesus and the earthly incarnation....

The Stump people like to use this verse

Pr 8:22 ¶ The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
 23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
 24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
 25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

A poetry piles of verses, what do they mean ? Wisdom was set up from before the earth was, a symbol of Jesus, perhaps? I see the verses referring to the fact before sinning took place on earth, Jesus knew already the wisdom written through when Adam would sin and the affect....

I do see also their point, but other logic makes it difficult to accept,, as I show here....

He does not like the role playing of Jesus as a Son and Father as a Daddy....again this assumes we understand Hebrew words as earthly family words....The highest is the strong one in the heavens, the meaning for "ab" Dad, and the word "Ben" is the heaven continues, the idea of the next one continuing the home families work...Hebrew see words as functions or actions...I would not be so arrogant to make GOD into a Father with a Son, we simply don't know....its a mystery, so why are we trying to push things so deeply as issues to divide the people in the Church...really James Stump and his comments only makes understanding God harder....I have no answer, but I don't need one either...

Let's try an easier answer for mankind shall we ?

Job 38:28 Hath the rain a father? or who hath begotten the drops of dew?
 29 Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it?

Where and why does water make snow and ice ? Still waiting for the answer from Science....See ? Se can't even figure out weather let's leave GOD where God should be, as the highest strong authority in the heavens, and not try to solve everything ....

Hope this helps


"Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me" Isaiah 6vs. 8.

Who is represented by us ?

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." 1 John 5 vs. 7

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. (John 1- 5)

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life—the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us—that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ. And we are writing these things so that our joy may be complete. (1John 1:1-4)

How many personage do you see here in the beginning? All biblical scholars agree that this, “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one,” text was interjected, probably in support of a trinity doctrine. The actual reading is this:

For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree.

Ok Brothers and sisters, can anyone explain the difference between these two words; Trinity and Godhead?

Mae, the definition depends on who uses it. If you are referring to the word GAY, it would depend if the person was referring to someone who is happy or someone who practices sin with the same sex.

Ellen White referred to God as TRIUNE.  Why delve into that which God has not revealed?  If people want to speak of Trinity let them as long as they and those who listen to them know what/who they are referring to.

God bless!

There are only three Bible texts that speak of the Bible word "god -head"

Ac 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God "Elohiym", we ought not to think that the Godhead "Elohiym plural" is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead "Elohiym plural" bodily.

And this one written with different Greek

Ro 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead "Elohiym head"; so that they are without excuse:

Of course there are plenty of verses where Paul speaks of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as  three personal Beings of Elohiym , a term EGW describes as the heavenly powers of GOD.

As for the concept of trinity....that is a more difficult term to define, because this is not Bible word ....the word "trinity" doesn't exist in Scripture as a single word...the English word was coined as a picture of explaining what God is like, and the meaning depends upon who is explaining the term.

A DVD by Tony Rykes of CornerStone Ministries entitled "God and the Holy Spirit" speaks of two main views of trinity, one being of a "three head god" and the other being as SDA teach a "three persons of GOD" ...He does an excellent job...explaining...

Hope this helps


In my view, the Trinity is a concocted religious concept derived from the ancient pagan (world religions) tirades three-fold god that found its way into the Christian church. The book, The Two Babylons has a lot the say about this three-fold god concepts that has been found throughout the ancient religions of the world.

...Will anyone after this say that the Roman Catholic Church must still be called Christian, because it holds the doctrine of the Trinity? So did the Pagan Babylonians, so did the Egyptians, so do the Hindoos at this hour, in the very same sense in which Rome does. They all admitted A trinity... (The Two Babylons)

The word Godhead is found in the scriptures, but the word Trinity isn't because it’s made up, in the sense that it wasn’t part of the original mindset of the disciple and apostles of Christ. Reading the introduction from the book Romans through Revelation one can clearly see this.

7To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be …Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

1Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;) 2And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia: Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,

1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead

1Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: 2Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

3That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth; 2For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever. 3Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ…

When Pau, Peter and John acknowledged the Godhead, they all said the very same thing:

Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

There is no third person of the Godhead, at least these men who were God’s apostles doesn’t point to one.

When the first century came to an end, the early New Testament Church was under attack from within and without. By the first part of the second century, it had all but disappeared in the historical record. According to some scholars, it was as if a great curtain came down on it—perhaps as early as the 60s, soon after the death of Paul. John, the last surviving of the original 12 apostles, died around 100. When the curtain began to rise again 20 years later, the church that emerged was very different from the body the apostles had nurtured. (Apostles: First Followers and Their Faith)


True @Gene the word trinity is modern term. But the bible has plenty of evidence for there is tree persons in the Godhead, so I can not see why we have such a big problem with the term. 


I don’t have a problem with the term; I have a problem with the concept. I agree the word trinity maybe considered a modern term, but the concept of a three-god in one goes as far back as the tower of Babal.

If we turn from the testimony of God's word, and accept false doctrines because our fathers taught them, we fall under the condemnation pronounced upon Babylon; we are drinking of the wine of her abomination. {GC 536.3}

Thank you Gene you have seen it, the Trinity is 3 in 1 abd the Godhead is 3 are 1

Hi Gene,

"but the concept of a three-god in one goes as far back as the tower of Babal."

Does this statement has any base? Or this is something that somebody told you but you but you never checked?


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