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Revelation 7:1-4 states: "After these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel."

Then the Scripture lists 12,000 from each of the following 12 tribes: Judah, Reuben, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Manasseh, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, and Benjamin.

Now the main question is whether or not the 144,000 are actually 12,000 literal Israelites from each of these respective tribes.  Twelve tribes came from the 12 sons of Jacob, but because Joseph was sold into slavery by his older brothers, he was separated from his family for many years. After Joseph finally reunited with his father, Jacob promised to compensate by adopting Joseph's two sons as his own, to be numbered with his sons in place of Joseph.

"Now thy two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, which were born unto thee in the land of Egypt before I came unto thee into Egypt, are mine; as Reuben and Simeon, they shall be mine." Genesis 48:5. Hence, Joseph would be numbered twice through his sons. So its not the literal 12 tribes, but the clue to it being a spiritual meaning to the 144,000 was the way in which the tribes are listed in Revelation 7:5-8. This is the only time in Scripture that the names of the tribes appear in this order. Reuben, the firstborn of Jacob, is listed as second while Judah, fourth in birth order, is listed as first. Joseph and Levi are included, while Ephraim and Dan are left out. Why?

Because "Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder [viper] in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward" (Genesis 49:17), and "Ephraim is joined to idols: let him alone" (Hosea 4:17).

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Now where she mason the 144.000 in nomber.

The 144.000 is not at the throne. Can it be that great multitude is the same as the 144.000?

Because the 144.000 most be at the throne. In this event she did not see the 144.000.

That is why the question can it be that the GM and the 144.000 the same.

Peace 

Benicio wrote: "The 144.000 is not at the throne. Can it be that great multitude is the same as the 144.000?  Because the 144.000 most be at the throne. In this event she did not see the 144.000. That is why the question can it be that the GM and the 144.000 the same."

   Brother Benicio, what makes the 144,000 literal amount of saints and the great multitude of saints to be gathered during the Loud Cry the same is that they are living saints.

 They're of the same harvest(living saints), the first fruits of the harvest are the 144,000 in number, a literal amount of saints. They go out and gather the great multitude. Two groups, but all are living saints to be translated when Jesus comes. Since you think I'm a lair,  Don't take my word for it, pastor Doug B. teaches it, EGW teaches it, and most importantly the Bible teaches it. 

 So, if your trying to imply with your questions that 144,000 are not literal amount of saints, then your wrong my brother. 

Blessings! 

 

Hi Anthony blessed week I’m wrong in everything for you Daviduan people.

Anthony my brother, you have decieved yourself and have decieved others.

You build up false structure, then barricade it with Bible text and qouted from the SOP which you claim prove it to be truth; but you pass over those passages which prove you and it to be untruths.

Now I understand Solomon, when he say there is nothing new under the sun

God bless you

You are right about they not being specifically mentioned but their characteristics are listed. To add credence to your view someone has said that the 144000 and the great multitude are never mentioned together in the SOP. 

On the other hand, if one reads the SOP tenaciously, they would conclude that the 144000 are a special group at the end of time, and more specifically they would be the only saints alive when Jesus returns. According to Ellen White, they had special privileges...

Ok Jason I understand that. 95% of our view on this subject is the same. 

God bless you.

I mean the same like me. We believe 95% the same on this subject.

We will soon see it at 100%

Peace 

Jason wrote: "On the other hand, if one reads the SOP tenaciously, they would conclude that the 144000 are a special group at the end of time, and more specifically they would be the only saints alive when Jesus returns. According to Ellen White, they had special privileges..."

  Your saying the SOP teaches that only 144,000 will be alive when Jesus comes?

  If so, That's not true. The Bible and SOP doesn't teach that. It will the 144,000 and those (great multitude) gathered in harvest time... They will go though the last plagues and be translated and caught up in the air when Jesus comes. 

Bless! 

Anthony I do not see why I have to kep going in discoussion with you.

In everything you hold the same view as the SR, and you are still saying that you are not a SR. WAW!

pleace do not address me any more in your post.

 If you cannot come clean and say I’m Davidian, if you cannot be true do not address my nane in any of your post.

You Davidians like to wrest the Bible and the SOP and misapply it’s utterance.

Peace 

Benicio wrote: "Anthony I do not see why I have to kep going in discoussion with you.
In everything you hold the same view as the SR, and you are still saying that you are not a SR. WAW!
pleace do not address me any more in your post.
If you cannot come clean and say I’m Davidian, if you cannot be true do not address my nane in any of your post.
You Davidians like to wrest the Bible and the SOP and misapply it’s utterance."

 

With all due respect, if your promoting teachings that don't harmonize with the Bible and SOP, then I will address you and what you wrote. I already told you, if agreeing with some of the things VTH teach causes you to label me a Davidian then go right ahead. If that's what's in your mind to do, then go with it my brother. But I keep telling you, I don't care, all I care about is what is taught and weighing that with what the Bible says, and what SOP teaches. I'm asking you questions and you and Jason just overlook it, why? 

 Avoiding questions in a discussion shines bad light on both of yous.... You can post quotes all you want, but how do you reason? My questions will prove your reasoning is wrong in these particular subjects. 

 As I see it, you and Jason disagree on who will be translated when Jesus comes in the clouds.. I'm assuming that is why you said you both agree on 95%. 

 Benicio, you believe it'll be a great multitude that Jesus will translate... brother Jason believes only a 144,000 will be translated when Jesus comes in the clouds when all eyes can see Him. 

  Brother Benicio, you are correct, Jesus will translate a great multitude when He comes in the clouds... it's just that the 144,000 literal amount of saints will be amongst them. Jason is wrong, it won't just be 144,000. 

 Let's reason here on Jason's theory and why I believe it's dangerous teaching.. if SDA teaching is that only 144,000 literal amount of saints will be translated when Jesus comes, then that means the 144,000 saints goes out to give the Loud Cry during the Latter rain to gather a great multitude of saints from the fallen churches and the world just to have them die in the last plagues. Because if they won't be alive when Jesus comes then they had to die between the end of the probationary time and His coming. 

 The more brighter and correct SDA teaching is that the great ingathering, the Loud Cry is to give the call to GOD'S people in the fallen churches and the world to come out and come into GOD'S arch (Church) to escape the plagues, to go though great tribulation with the 144,000 who called them out by the power of the Latter rain. 

Not that you care my dear brother Benicio, but I agree with you, Jesus will translate a great multitude at His coming, it's just that I believe the 144,000 literal amount of saints will be amongst them, they are all living saints to be translated. 

 Blessings! 

  

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