I see so many people that become very hard to live with when they start reading Ellen White's writings. Some become horrible to live around and seem to lose any joy they previously had. They actually become miserable. One who helped lead me to Christ actually came to the point where he said he could no longer even talk to me because I was unclean. It seems like something clicks in their heads and they no longer know how to enjoy fellowship. The last thing he ever said to me was... If you are going to be one of God's chosen, you have to be perfect...
Anyways, God is good...
Hello Mr. Bryan,
I guess I would have to say that I do understand your reasoning. The prophet would have to be "in the moment with God" for her writings to be prophecy or inspired by God. At least, when she is speaking as a conduit for God she has to be truthful, as accurate as her perception of the message from God was, and it must happen as she says to be prophecy. The are such things as conditional prophecies however, where God stays His hand. As you know, Jesus said, "No one knows the date or time, not the Angels above, or the Son, but only the Father." (I think Mr. Miller was disappointed too. Lol!)
As for the Holy Spirit, I think even some Christians have a hard time with that idea. God picks some odd people to be His prophets. Moses was a murderer and outcast. We don't know how God admonished Mrs. White or if He did. God's Commandments that He Himself spoke are at the top. Jesus speaking as the Son of God is second but almost equal, then there's the rest of the Bible. Mrs. White's writings can be compared to one of the prophets for us.
The logic of conditional prophecies has been proposed by the some in the church to explain why Ellen Whites predictions did not come to pass. However, have found these explanations lacking Spiritual insight. God would not set a date for his return and then change his mind because of the actions of a group of people. His return is Global, and his salvation is eternal exending through time. Thus, when he died for our sins He died for the sins prior to his day and into the future. In 1844, and in 1951, he was aware of my and your existance, and His salvation was extended to us. In other words before we existed God knew us. Thus, he would not have revealed to Ellen White that he was returning, only to change his mind because there were multitudes left to save (which included us.) I have no issue with Ellen White or an other person serving God. I do have an issue with any person who produces inconsistent message that are inconsisted with the word of God, or misrepresent His Character.
God may place conditions on certain prophecies that have to do with judgement, such as Nineva, and even search for reason not to employ judgement such as Sodom and Gomorrah. However, his return is to collect the saints to Himself. It is a date set in time and it is not judgment. The judgement occurs the third time when (the second death,) when the wicked are judged. Thus God would not have revealed his return or even season of his return to Ellen White, and then change his mind because the group of SDA's at that time were not ready. This is a position that is antithetical to the bible.
H. Leon Bryan Ed.D.
Ellen White never held semi-arian beliefs, she had to correct those who held such beliefs.
Some early Adventists joined the church believing and advocating semi-Arianism, i.e. the view that Jesus is a separate, lesser being than God the Father. However, church historians point out that the teachings and writings of Ellen White, who was raised in a Methodist family, ultimately proved influential in shifting the church from largely semi-Arian roots towards Trinitarianism.
"The Holy Spirit has a personality, else He could not bear witness to our spirits and with our spirits that we are the children of God. He must also be a divine person, else He could not search out the secrets which lie hidden in the mind of God. "For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God." (1 Corinthians 2:11)
The prince of the power of evil can only be held in check by the power of God in the third person of the Godhead, the Holy Spirit." Evangelism, p. 617
You should at least privide some evidence in the form of quotes when making allegations
Did Ellen White state Christ would return in 1846?
Yes. And that the door to salvation was closed to all but the Millerites
I am not making acusations. I am stating the truth. The James White Ellen White's husband came from the Christian connection or connexion which did not believe in the Trinity. Ellen white advocated for the trinity later in her life, but never openly opposed those that were Arian. There are many conservative Adventist (Hartland, Hope International, Wimer,) who consider the belief in trinity to be opposed to the tradtional adventist message, and they also indicate that it belief in the trinity is the omega heresy, prophesied by Ellen G. White.
H. Leon Bryan Ed.D.
Ellen White was most definitely semi-arian as were many founders of the SDA Church. This may not have been a belief that was original to her because she grew up in a Methodist church. However, many of the early that day that it came from the Christian connexion Church which help semi-arian beliefs. These links were later adopted in the early at the doctrine and were agreed upon by Ellen White. As she progressed in her knowledge of the Bible, Ellen White became more and advocate of the Trinitarian doctrine which led to some controversy. However, even faith based Adventist like Waggoner held some Arian beliefs.
I with think you would be proud of the fact that Ellen White was able to adjust her doctrine, based on receiving better information. Additionally, Ellen White received a great deal of criticism, and was even relegated to missionary work in Australia because of her advocacy of faith based Christ centered ministry, over denominational legalism.
H. Leon Bryan
I was brought up in the time when the works of E. G. White were usually considered more important than the bible. It was not until I was older that I realized there was question about divine inspiration, and that much of her writings were taken from other sources. Was she inspired? I don't know. She never claimed to be a prophet, however, she did say her work was greater that that of a prophet. Not just sure what that means. In my studies I have found many errors in her books, and certain stories that don't match the bible. PP states that Eve wondered away from Adam that being the reason for her fall The bible says Adam was with her when she sinned. Mrs. White describes the plague that came to Israel as being the result of gluttony when their bellies were full, Num. 11, states the plague hit before the meat even passed their teeth. I was brought up in Mountain View at the Pacific Press where the battle of E.G. White reigned eternal. The question to me is not whether or not the " red books" need to be followed to the tee, in order to obtain salvation, or should we rely on Jesus Christ. Ellen White even says that if we would study our bibles faithfully there would be no need for the testimonies.
Only someone who is inspired could enlighten us on stories in the bible. What's the use of a prophet if he/she cannot enlighten us on the biblical accounts? Please study the new testament and you will observe the writers giving more information on the old testament stories
they don't change the stories however
Thank you Bryan I agree completely. I spent most of my younger years being beat over the head with " Ellen White said." This was done by good God fearing teachers in our SDA schools, some of whom were actually related to Mrs. White. I do not blame them because that was all they knew. however, since I have gotten older I realize there is more to salvation than the Spirit of Prophecy teachings of do's and don'ts. I do thank God for the SDA schools He allowed me to attend. I thank Him even more now for the loving relationship I have found with the Lord now that I understand there is salvation by faith through Christ alone. The truth will set you free. Ellen White has written some very beautiful works and I'm sure many have been brought to the Lord as a result but your salvation still rest in the Lord.
David Bowles, One minor discrepancy is in PP, where she states Eve wondered away from Adam and put herself in the line of temptation, and then took of the fruit. The bible states she took of the fruit and gave it to Adam who was with her. Another is when God gave Quail to the Israelites to eat. Mrs. White states it was because of gluttony that they were struck by the plague. The bible states, num.11, that the plague hit them before the meat passed their teeth. This does not mean that she was not inspired, But it makes me think her word is not the last word in the way it really happened. John Milton, in his classic writings, gives a similar account of Adam and Eve in the garden.
Herb, I believe there is a very simple reason for the inconsistencies. I don't know that I would be called a "progressive" or whatever but here is what I truly believe concerning Sister White's writings. First of all, I do believe that Ellen White is a prophet. The problem is not with her writings. Consider that she was here only a century and a half ago. So we have pretty much every thing she put down on paper in a vault somewhere. But to say that every time she put a pen to paper she was doing the work of a prophet is a stretch. There in lies the rub. I do not for a minute believe that every time she gave counsel or spoke it was in her office as a prophet and unfortunately she is not here to set people straight. I would be willing to bet that Paul wrote many letters to different people that wasn't Scripture. And I am sure that Isaiah as well as Jeremiah and many others wrote and spoke and gave counsel that was godly and good and right agreeing with Scripture but were not at the time exercising there prophetic gift. Something to consider!