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Let's start with #2, "The Trinity"

"Christ is one with the father, but Christ and God are two distinct personages” (RH June 1, 1905)

“The Scriptures clearly indicate the relation between God and Christ, and they bring to view as clearly the personality and individuality of eachellen white pillars[Hebrews 1:1-5 quoted.] God is the Father of Christ; Christ is the Son of God. To Christ has been given an exalted position. He has been made equal with the Father. All the counsels of God are opened to His Son.” (Ellen White, Testimonies for the Church, vol. 8, page 268)

“The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty, yet Christ and the Father are one.” (Ellen White SDA Bible Commentary, vol.5 p.1129)

“Here we might mention the Trinity, which does away the personality of God, and of his Son Jesus Christ”(James White, December 11, 1855, james white pillarsReview & Herald, vol. 7, no. 11, page 85, par. 16)

“The doctrine of the Trinity which was established in the church by the council of Nice, A. D. 325. This doctrine JN Andrews pillarsdestroys the personality of God, and his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. The infamous, measures by which it was forced upon the church which appear upon the pages of ecclesiastical history might well cause every believer in that doctrine to blush.” (J. N. Andrews, March 6, 1855, Review & Herald, vol. 6, no. 24, page 185)

1 Corinthians 8:6  But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

"Most of the founders of Seventh-day Adventism would not be able to join the church today if they had to subscribe to the denomination's Fundamental Beliefs. More specifically, most would not be able to agree to belief number 2, which deals with the doctrine of the Trinity." George Knight, Ministry, October 1993, p. 10.

"Adventist beliefs have changed over the years under the impact of 'present truth'. Most startling is the teaching regarding Jesus Christ, our Saviour and Lord…the Trinitarian understanding of God, now part of our fundamental beliefs, was not generally held by the early Adventsists." William G. Johnsson, Adventist Review, Jan 6, 1994, p. 10.

The 1874 statements, by Uriah Smith, published in the June 4 Signs of the Times:

1. That there is one God, a personal, spiritual Being, the Creator of all things, omnipotent, omniscient, and eternal; infinite in wisdom, holiness, justice, goodness, truth and mercy; unchangeable, and everywhere present by His representative, the Holy Spirit. Psalm 139:7. [Where can I go from Thy spirit? or where can I flee from Thy presence?]

2. That there is one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Eternal Father, the One by whom God created all things, and by whom they do consist…"

But, the 28 fundamentals say:

2. The Trinity
There is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three coeternal
PersonsGod is immortal, all-powerful, all-knowing, above all, and ever
present. He is infinite and beyond human comprehension, yet known
through His self-revelation. He is forever worthy of worship, adoration, and
service by the whole creation. (Deut. 6:4; Matt. 28:19; 2 Cor. 13:14;
Eph. 4:4-6; 1 Peter 1:2; 1 Tim. 1:17; Rev. 14:7.)

"He", as in the unity of all 3." Weird.  I don't want to agree with that.  They will deny you membership if you don't?  I'd like to see them try and take my membership again.  I believe God will not let them enforce this baleful church legislation.

   "The revelation of Himself that God has given in His Word is for our study. This we may seek to understand. But beyond this we are not to penetrate. . . . None are to indulge in speculation regarding His nature. Here silence is eloquence. The Omniscient One is above discussion." The Faith I Live By p. 40.

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Yes Its amazing how the Church has gone from not believing to now believing in the Trinity. Although we find some saints around here that does not believe in the Holy Spirit as a third member of the Godhead.

The TRINITY and the TRIUNE GOD are separate and distinct.  The trinity doctrine #2 which our fundamental beliefs state is CATHOLIC as it refers to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as HE but should be THEY.

The life that was unborrowed underived that was in the Son was the life of the Father though.  They were not always equal but always existed along with the Holy Spirit.

"In Christ is life, original, unborrowed, underived.”

"in the heavenly courts, in His ministry for all created beings: through the beloved Son, the Father's life flows out to all; through the Son it returns"

Speaking of the Son,

"He was with God from all eternity"

He was not always a separate being but was joined with the Father and was begotten (came forth)

the Son of God declares concerning Himself: "The Lord possessed Me in the beginning of His way, before His works of old. I was set up from everlasting. . . . When He appointed the foundations of the earth: then I was by Him, as one brought up with Him: and I was daily His delight, rejoicing always before Him." Proverbs 8:22-30. {PP 34.1}

"Jesus was to reveal God both to men and to angels. He was the Word of God,--God's thought made audible"

He was REALLY the SON OF THE FATHER.  He came forth even though He was always in existence.

"In His incarnation He gained in a new sense the title of the Son of God. Said the angel to Mary, "The power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God" (Luke 1:35). While the Son of a human being, He became the Son of God in a new sense. Thus He stood in our world--the Son of God, yet allied by birth to the human race."

The reason Satan was jealous was because the Father EXALTED the Son to be EQUAL WITH HIMSELF

"The great Creator assembled the heavenly host, that he might in the presence of all the angels confer special honor upon his Son. The Son was seated on the throne with the Father, and the heavenly throng of holy angels was gathered around them. The Father then made known that it was ordained by himself that Christ should be equal with himself; so that wherever was the presence of his Son, it was as his own presence. His word was to be obeyed as readily as the word of the Father. His Son he had invested with authority to command the heavenly host. Especially was he to work in union with himself in the anticipated creation of the earth and every living thing that should exist upon it. His Son would carry out his will and his purposes, but would do nothing of himself alone. The Father's will would be fulfilled in him........God informed Satan that to his Son alone he would reveal his secret purposes."

Thank you, Prophecy 101.  I like how EGW explains things by the Holy Ghost, better than how the Church Manual explains things, based on their own human wisdom.  And you can tell they don't have the Holy Ghost, because they have to try to enforce their interpretations through coercion, when we know "God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.", (2 Tim. 1:7).

When God raises up a false prophet, it's to test us, to see if we will be "fearful, and unbelieving", (Rev. 21:8).  or "leave results with God", {GC 609.1}.

That's the bitter-sweet experience that enables us to "..prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.", (Rev. 10:11).  It's sweet that we have the message, but it's bitter that our own brethren water it down and turn on us, out of their own fear.

amen brother!

The Catholic trinity involves the 'virgin mary' and the pope who sits the second place of Jesus as the 'vicar of christ', and the Church with its tradition over bible.

1 Corinthians 8:6  "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him." Does not disagree with other passages. Line upon Line.

John 14:16 And I [Jesus] will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it sees him not, neither knows him: but you know him; for he dwells with you, and shall be in you.

14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you.

15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send to you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceeds from the Father, he shall testify of me:

16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send him to you.

16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

17:5 And now, O Father, glorify you me with your own self with the glory which I had with you before the world was.

20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, Receive you the Holy Ghost:

1 Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached to the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

I believe the Bible supports the Godhead.. founders were subject to correction.

You would refer to Father/Son/Holy Ghost as "He", rather than "They"?  That doesn't seem creepy to you?

And what do you mean by "founders were subject to correction"?

Rush, the SDA founders, like all, are subject to reproof with the Word of God. I don't know what could have been influencing them on an anti-trinity. Some at the time believed Jesus was not God. That we had not known of God within recorded history. That would make the critic of Christianity have the upper hand, Christianity was no different than any other religion, based on faith and not proof of God, Jesus.

If these founders make an error about defining a word of prophecy, that could make a big differences. William Miller held that all of the seven vials were past. I think that is what the SDA-BRI does, looks at any word or doctrine that needs work.

Yes, He. The Jews referred to a God, not Gods. Christians every since the 1st century did also. If it helps you, we are give the term: Godhead. Then we can understand one body, the Godhead and arms and legs - all one body.

Weird.  Well, good thing we have the freedom to form our own opinions.  No one can urge any interpretation on the matter:

   "None are to indulge in speculation regarding His nature. Here silence is eloquence. The Omniscient One is above discussion." The Faith I Live By p. 40.

Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

He didn't have to go into the technicalities of it.  That's not required.  He just had to believe Jesus was the Son of God.

But they have made a fatal mistake in stereotyping their doctrines into creeds, and thus taking the first steps backward toward the spiritual tyranny of Rome.  ("United States in Bible Prophecy" by Uriah Smith,p. 127.1-128.0)

No one can force others to accept their opinions about things that are not required.  And if we disfellowship our founding fathers, or make them look like fools, we're proud, overconfident, and we dishonor our father and mother.

Do you believe this?

"There is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three coeternal PersonsGod" (Church Manual)

Or this:

1 Cor. 8:6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.

Romans 15:6 That ye may with one mind [and] one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].

The Bible identifies "God" as "the Father", not the trinity.  This is an unbiblical statement that comes strait from the Catechism, and if you make this a test of fellowship, then you have disfellowshipped yourself from Christ and eternal life, even if the General Conference tells you to do so.  They have been in apostasy ever since they decided to make their own tests of fellowship apart from what we have from Scripture:

“...And the church is a body of Christians associated together with the simple covenant to keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus."  ("Order and Discipline", R&H Vol. 57, Jan. 4, 1881, by James White)

If you have a different covenant, you are in a different church.

Do you believe this:

John 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

or that understanding our Creator ended with any pioneer's statement of your choice?

or that God stopped revealing new truths at any point in human history?

If you believe in Jesus' promise you will stop codifying the incomplete understandings of men - of all eras.

PS: Your final EGW quote in the OP dates to 1904 and really isn't supposed to put an end to seeking understanding of God's nature, but to how some people went about it. This is from one year later, 1905:

The Father is all the fulness of the Godhead bodily, and is invisible to mortal sight.{SpTB07 62.3}

The Son is all the fulness of the Godhead manifested. The Word of God declares Him to be “the express image of His person.” “God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” Here is shown the personality of the Father.{SpTB07 63.1}

The Comforter that Christ promised to send after He ascended to heaven, is the Spirit in all the fulness of the Godhead, making manifest the power of divine grace to all who receive and believe in Christ as a personal Saviour. There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit—those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ....{SpTB07 63.2}

I have no problem with the term "heavenly trio".  But she never refers to this "trio" as "God".  The word, "God" indicates one person:

    "The doctrine called the trinity, claiming that God is without form or parts; that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, the three are one person, is another." .... Heb.i,3. {July 10, 1856 UrSe, ARSH 87.27}

    "Because, says the trinitarian, the Father and Son are one person."    {November 10, 1859 UrSe, ARSH 194.10} 

    "There is a sense in which they are one, but not one person, as claimed by Trinitarians." {November 5, 1861 UrSe, ARSH 184.4} 

I understand they are one, as in perfect harmony, but not one person.  We have to clear up confusion, not cause confusion, by offering confusing statements.  It's not innocent to love confusion and obscurity.  Such darkness can serve as a blanket to cover over sins.  Then, to show devotion, zealots can go on witch hunts to persecute anyone who doesn't confess the confusing statements.  This is the tyranny of Rome, Uriah Smith spoke about.

This is what's making us weak.  We are supposed to separate ourselves from Babylon by never putting man in the place of God, which is the trademark of Babylon.  And, that's exactly what we are doing, when we allow uninspired men to make up new tests of fellowship for us to bow down to.  By doing so, we pay homage to their claim to superior wisdom.

Thank you Rush,

I appreciate this post. Many voices declare that our pioneers were, for the main part, Anti-Trinitarian. And of course that is true -- they were Anti-Trinitarian. But I think you've shown wonderfully well that the Trinity doctrine [as it was understood in their day,] was quite a different thing to what we think of when we hear about the "Trinity" today.

If Trinitarians were teaching that "the Father and Son are one person", then I'm sure we would both be Anti-Trinitarian too.


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